Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

[wazza300]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

its either cheap paste or the gap,but whatever it is cutting the lid and replacing the paste with liquid pro improves things 1000%

I would wait till the newer chipset revision is released,it gives you a chance to dodge all the early bios teething problems

[MrT0ad]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

I would wait till the newer chipset revision is released,it gives you a chance to dodge all the early bios teething problems

That makes two of us... I will be upgrading, but I'm looking at mid-autumn.

[Vinster]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

I was wondering if the IB Xeon line of enterprise processors also use TIM instead of solder. But none of them are unlocked, and the best 22nm Xeon is spec'd at 3.7 - 4.1GHz, but I would bet that enterprise boards do not have unlimited turbo boost time settings in their BIOS.

At my work we used Dell and HP Servers, I have not looked very hard in all the systems, but on the Dell r710 sitting in front of me with 2x E5520 CPU's, there is a Turbo selection in the bios (on/off), I can also play with a few C States, Enable/Disable Hyperthreading, and looking at CPU-Z I see it running the default speeds and not at all using the Turbo Boosted speeds.

I've even loaded it up with Prime95 and Linx not once did it use turbo boost :(

Also none of the manufactured systems allow you to play with any system voltages of frequencies. I'd be curious to know what would constitute enabling turbo mode.

Vin

[parsec]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

At my work we used Dell and HP Servers, I have not looked very hard in all the systems, but on the Dell r710 sitting in front of me with 2x E5520 CPU's, there is a Turbo selection in the bios (on/off), I can also play with a few C States, Enable/Disable Hyperthreading, and looking at CPU-Z I see it running the default speeds and not at all using the Turbo Boosted speeds.

I've even loaded it up with Prime95 and Linx not once did it use turbo boost :(

Also none of the manufactured systems allow you to play with any system voltages of frequencies. I'd be curious to know what would constitute enabling turbo mode.

Vin

The Xeon E5520 is a 45nm, Nehalem-era socket 1366 processor that does have Turbo boost, running at 2.26GHz - 2.53GHz:



For Turbo to be enabled, that option must be enabled, but it's also possible that Turbo is disabled by other means, or simply impossible to enable in the BIOS, regardless of the BIOS setting. The boost increase is typical for this generation of CPUs (0.26GHz), so not a big difference. I imagine that board's BIOS will follow the Turbo time limit specs exactly, and would be active for a very short time.

IMO, CPU-Z is not good for checking Turbo boost, since it reports one CPU frequency, while Turbo is applied on a core and thread basis.

[Vinster]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

The Xeon E5520 is a 45nm, Nehalem-era socket 1366 processor that does have Turbo boost, running at 2.26GHz - 2.53GHz:



For Turbo to be enabled, that option must be enabled, but it's also possible that Turbo is disabled by other means, or simply impossible to enable in the BIOS, regardless of the BIOS setting. The boost increase is typical for this generation of CPUs (0.26GHz), so not a big difference. I imagine that board's BIOS will follow the Turbo time limit specs exactly, and would be active for a very short time.

IMO, CPU-Z is not good for checking Turbo boost, since it reports one CPU frequency, while Turbo is applied on a core and thread basis.

I'm we aware of the CPU spec, I was just answering your question. and yes you can see when turbo is applied as CPU-Z reports the CPU speed in real time and these systems do not turbo a single multiplier but all at the same time.

you had asked a question regarding turbo on a Xeon, so I gave you an answer.

Vin

[parsec]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

I'm we aware of the CPU spec, I was just answering your question. and yes you can see when turbo is applied as CPU-Z reports the CPU speed in real time and these systems do not turbo a single multiplier but all at the same time.

you had asked a question regarding turbo on a Xeon, so I gave you an answer.

Vin

Uhh, not really...

OTOH, is there an uproar in the enterprise world with IB Xeon's running at high temperatures? I don't know, perhaps there is.

That is, Ivy Bridge architecture, 22nm Xeon processors, which may use conventional TIM as the consumer Ivy Bridge processors do. Nehalem processors have solder between the die and IHS, and do not become as hot as IB CPUs when over clocked.

I was also discussing the the operation of unlocked 'K' processors, whose multipliers are used to OC, and are not controlled by the standard rules that apply to Turbo (Turbo 2.0 in this case.) I was not referring to Xeon's, since they are not unlocked. The single CPU frequency display of CPU-Z when used with SB and IB CPUs seems to be that of core 0, but who knows. When I compare CPU-Z to a multiple core frequency display (HWiNFO64), CPU-Z is sluggish, its update rate seems very low, and seems to retain the highest read value.

Hmm, I could swear that the cores of my i7-930 can change the multiplier on an individual core basis, they certainly do when SpeedStep is active. But Xeons may work differently.

[wazza300]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

broadwell isn't bga soldered for the desktop market,just the mobile and small form factor

so that's good news

[parsec]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

Ya know, I have seen that too, but I can't recall where. What is your source of that information?

Many of the all in one PCs that are appear to be large monitors already use mobile processors and SODIMMs. If Broadwell will not be BGA only, then what is the concern about? Is it all just bad information and rumors? Or is the line between mobile and desktop CPUs becoming less well defined, since mobile CPUs are being used in non-mobile PCs.

I also just thought, what about the enterprise market? Would they be fine with a non-replaceable CPU system? I have no idea how often enterprise systems replace processors, if they do, and why. Why would Intel go to BGA only in the consumer market, but still produce socketed processors for the enterprise market only?

[wazza300]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

it on Wikipedia,its going to be split into three teirs,and only the small form factor and laptops will be bga,the desktop will carry on as normal socket

[parsec]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

Well so much for that rumor, we should of known better. Good to see that it will use the same socket 1150 as Haswell.

There is another aspect of Haswell that is different than earlier CPUs that has not been described very well, and could cause changes in mother boards. That is, to quote from the Wikipedia page on Haswell:

Fully integrated voltage regulator, thereby moving a component from the motherboard onto the CPU

Specifically, Haswell will have only two two voltage inputs, Vccin for logic and Vddq for DRAM. Everything that uses power in Haswell will be derived from the single Vccin rail, compared with up to five independent rails on IB or SB, not including DRAM voltage. The CPU voltage adjustments we have now should be the same with Haswell, according to Intel.

That ought to simplify mother boards a bit, but let's hope the voltage controls in the UEFI/BIOS will work as expected, or will we be faced with some changes?

[wazza300]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

that's right,theres tiny vrm's inside the cpu but they are still on the motherboard but bigger ones

[parsec]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

The problem I have with all this is the terminology being used, "the VRM in the CPU". Sure, it must be a voltage level control and distribution chip or part of the CPU die, but it can't be what are called VRMs on a mother board. As in the voltage regulator chips cooled by a heatsink, found at the top of the mother board and along the left side of the CPU socket. Those also use multiple capacitors and inductors to create power for the CPU, as well as the multiple "phases" (number of chips) used for a higher power capacity.

Those components obviously cannot be part of a Haswell CPU for multiple reasons. The new 8 series Intel chipset boards have the usual chips and heatsinks for creating the appropriate power for a CPU. Moving the final distribution and voltage control to the CPU is the change in Haswell. I just hope the voltage control within the CPU works as well as previous platforms.

[boondocks]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

I read that block OC is supposed to be better with Haswell. Whether true or not, who knows? I didn't get into OC until SB, and with SB & IB I've pretty much left block adjustments alone.

Pretty much decided to be an early adopter with Haswell. I was with IB, and I can't say that my two UD5H boards have been unpleasant to work with. If the USB 3.0 issue is as limited as I understand it to be, I don't think it will be a problem for me.
If anyone knows something to contradict this, feel free to elaborate. I don't use any peripherial USB 3.0 storage devices so that can't affect me. My SeaSonic psu is supposedly low volt capable so that shouldn't be a problem with low power states.

As far as early BIOS bugs....well there's that but with Gigabyte it's something you either tolerate or buy something else. I'm hoping with the new user configurable BIOS Giga is bringing something new to the table, but I know that if the underlying basic coding is crap all the bells and whistles won't mean much. IF -and this is a big if- this time around I run into bugs so bad I just can't live with it I'll dump the board and look elsewhere.

One very solid thing about Gigabyte is their RMA. I've used them twice; the first time was either a factory defect or Newegg sold me a used board, the second time I borked a PCI slot which was totally my fault and Gigabyte fixed it with no comment. They did keep my box cover, but I guess that was a "learning" experience. Never send anything extra along with an RMA.

[Vinster]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

They did keep my box cover

They did that to me too... I was mad when I realized that.

Vin

[wazza300]

Re: Haswell Is Coming,Who's Upgrading?

haswell reviews are out

Intel Core i7 4770K (Haswell 4th Gen) CPU and Z87 Express Chipset Review :: TweakTown

thing that catches my eye are the very low idle voltages of around 0.2v at idle

much better ram speeds too with 2400mhz+ easily doable

and the new z87 gigabyte bios's look much much better

@ profjim I would grab some Samsung green ddr3 if you can spot any,i bet it would clock very well indeed on haswell platform

haswell does use paste inbetween the die and heatsink like ivy does,i knew that anyway,so its out with the Stanley knife if your brave enough