UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

[profJim]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

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[Ken429]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

ProfJim,
Thanks for the Intel Links. It looks like 1.32 volts on the NB is the "Absolute Maximum" according to Intel. I think I hit the wall on my system at 475 FSB and the 2.40B multiplier so I'm back at the 3.825GHz settings for awhile. For some reason the system hangs after 334 minutes with FSB at 475, LLC Enabled, Vcore at 1.35v and MCHCore at 1.32v and DRAM at 2.10v. Those are the settings that ran to 6+ hours at 471 FSB.

I have tried the following with the FSB at 475 using Prime95:

CPU Termination up one notch to 1.26v
CPU PLL up one notch to 1.57v
System failed < 10 minutes

CPU Termination back to 1.24v
CPU PLL up on notch to 1.57v
System failed < 1 minute

CPU Termination up one notch to 1.26v
CPU PLL back to 1.50v
System Hung after 75 minutes

CPU Terminatin back to 1.24v
CPU PLL back to 1.50V
Vcore up one notch to 1.35625v
System Hung after 271 minutes

CPU temps are not a problem with the H50 cooler - should I try more Vcore voltage? Or...do you have another idea to get this system to the Mushkin 1150 max?! Up to this point it liked more MCH Core, DRAM and Vcore voltage. It does not like more CPU Termination or CPU PLL voltage!

[kick]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

I havent seen the absolute maximum intel p45 posts for mch, what i can tell you is it works happily enough for 3000 hrs + at 1.40V,averaging out 1.38-1.42V.
I also havent seen many/any 1920+ fsb bios configs with less than 1.32V applied on these boards
If you could link the absolute maximum intel posts that would be good.
What it gets down to is memory bandwitdh/latency fsb and cpu speed.
You arent going to get over 11gb/s on the memory somewhere around 10 gb/s or less is more likely.

1.cpu speed will allways give a pc performance increase,the faster the cpu goes the more performance you will get.Also tho each mhz of cpu speed will give you less performance incrase than the previous 1 mhz
cpu speed>fsb speed>memory speed is a reasonable maxim to aim for.

2.if using ddr2 memory people need to get over the "if I run my memory as fast as it will go, thats where my best pc performance will be".
It aint necessarily so.

3.1300mhz ddr2 memory is very expensive,probably an endangered species by now and its cost is enormous.

If u up your cpu speed you can be sure of a performance increase,when it comes to memory speed, faster isnt allways better,depends on timngs.

[Ken429]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

Post #136. First link. Then http://www.intel.com/Assets/PDF/datasheet/319970.pdf
Page 555.

[profJim]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

1140MHz memory speeds might be near the limit for your memory, unless you use slightly looser primary memory timings (5-6-6-18 or 6-6-6-18) and/or DDR2 voltage = 2.12 - 2.20 volts. MCH core voltage for 2.2GB of memory at ultra high speeds (greater than 1150MHz) often requires 1.34 volts or higher.

Load Line Calibration (LLC) = enabled might be part of the problem.
With you H50 cooling setup, disabling LLC and increasing cpu core voltage should be fine.
BTW, with LLC enabled, you're circumventing Intels "safe" specifications for cpu voltage over/under shoot limits.
This is why "excessive" vdroop is an intentional design feature.
Some insist that the only way they can have stable systems is to enable LLC with high overclocks.

I agree with most of what Kick posted.
Trying for maximum memory speeds will not give you the best overall system performance.

With the following setups:
1) 7x459 = 3.213GHz + 459x2.40B = 1102MHz (5-5-5-15) tRD = 8
2) 7x492 = 3.444GHz + 492x2.00D = 984Mhz (5-5-4-12) tRD = 9
Setup #2 was faster, in "real world" tests and in most synthetic benchmarks.
My Everest memory bandwith scores were slightly lower with the 3.213GHz/1102MHz setup.

Many have found little or no difference in gaming performance (using high quality memory) when running with tighter memory timings (with lower memory speeds) versus looser memory timings (with higher memory speeds).

Check out Lsdme's DDR2 performance benchmarks in his Crucial Ballistix User Guide/Review, where the 1140 - 1160 memory speeds were about the same as the 900 - 1000MHz tests. Note, he was testing with 3.9 - 4.1GHz cpu speeds.

You might find the performance sweet spot with 470 - 490+ cpu speeds, using the 8x (or 8.5x) cpu multiplier and using 2.00B or 2.00D memory multiplier with primary memory timings similar to mine (5-5-4-12). You'll probably find that at 480MHz or higher, the using 2.00D will allow tRD to be set 1 click lower than using the 2.00B memory multiplier.

FYI: Intel's specs (section 14.1)show:
(G)MCH VCC = 1.21 volts (max)
VTT_FSB = 1.32 volts (max)

On my system, MCH Core = 1.26 - 1.28 volts works best, and VTT = 1.28 volts. YMMV

The general recommendation is that VTT (CPU Termination) should be at least 0.05 - 0.10 volts lower than cpu core voltage.

Happy tweaking!!

[Ken429]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

Ok, you guys finally broke me, I'm off the 2.40 memory multiplier and on to the 2.00 world. We'll see what kind of problems I can stumble into for further discussion!

[Ken429]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

I'm a slow learner. I have set the memory multiplier to 200D and Disabled LLC. I have 5-5-5-15 set for the memory with everything else set to auto except the 9 in tRD. The Vcore is set to 1.325 and the CPU Termination is set to 1.22v. At 450 FSB the system runs OCCT to completion.

At 471 all kinds of bad things happen. I upped the Vcore to 1.35625v and the CPU Termination to 1.24v. First, I get blue screens when the CPU Termination is set to 1.24v. I watched the voltage on OCCT drop to 1.22v and then the blue screen. With the CPU Termination set to 1.20v OCCT will run for about 20 minutes and then the system hangs. OCCT is reporting a voltage of 1.26-1.30v before the system crashes. Is this a normal vdroop? Should I set the Vcore at 1.38 or 1.4v?

As soon as I Enable LLC and set the Vcore to 1.35 and CPU Termination 1.24v OCCT seems happy running at 1.31v for 60 minutes.

One last gasp, ProfJim can I set the Advanced Timing Control settings back to the 3-3-5-52-3-Auto using the 200D strap? Allow me one more last gasp, what is the difference between 200B and 200D?

[Eek]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

Ken429, I'd tweak the Refference voltages (0.8 cpu or around that at default VTT should work well with Quads, also you should try tweaking the mch one). Hanging most of the time means not enough VTT or/and PLL voltages.
***
Kick, I'm hapilly running at 500 (2000) fsb with only 1.2 on the mch DDR2 is not that expensive (but prices are going up), you can find OCZ Blade for ~130EU in Europe and mine pair can go up to 1350 mhz stable (seen others go as high as 1280-1300 with no problem).

[profJim]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

When testing with 2.00D vs 2.00B, some minor tweaks might be needed.
Your advanced memory timings look good, but they might not be compatible with the 2.00D memory strap.
You might have better results setting these to AUTO for now, they can be tightened up later, after your system has passed stability testing.

With different memory straps (A,B,C, or D), the bios makes "internal" changes that are appropriate for the selected memory strap.

To avoid confusion, it's best if you post your full bios settings along with a description of the problems encountered. If you tried additional settings, it's OK to list only the changed settings and the results in the same post. It will help if you include a screen-shot with:

1. cpu-z (CPU and Mainboard screens)
2. Memset (including the "SPD" and ">>" tabs
3. EasyTune6 (TUNER tab --> ADVANCE tab --> VOLTAGE)
4. so that we can confirm some of the posted bios settings.

I've found that the following bios settings worked best with my 996599 Mushkin memory in the mid to upper 400MHz range:
2.00B & tRD = 8 up to 465MHz, 2.00B with tRD = 9 or 10 with higher cpu speeds
2.00D & tRD = 9 at 480MHz up to about 500+MHz
at mid to upper 400MHz cpu speeds:

• MCH Core = 1.26 or 1.28
• Cpu Termination = 1.26 or 1.28 volts
• Cpu PLL = 1.57
• ICH \I/O = 1.57
• ICH Core = 1.20
• HDD S.M.A.R.T. Capability = Disabled (Note SMART functionality will still work with other software programs)

I suggest going back to your stable 450MHz setup and see if your system is stable using the 2.00B system memory multiplier, leaving LLC enabled.
If it is stable, try 460MHz and higher. If necessary, set MCH Core and Cpu PLL to 1.28 volts and retest. The last 3 voltages might help with stability.

Once you've reached your "final" stable setting, you can then see if your system is stable by disabling LLC and increasing CPU Vcore as necessary.
Note: different memory might require different settings.

Your vdroop seems about right with LLC disabled.
On my system with LLC disabled:
CPU Vcore setting: 1.3750
PC Health seeting: 1.346 (after I've saved bios settings and exited)
CPU @idle: ------- 1.328
CPU @100% load:- 1.312

Increasing MCH Reference volts 1 or 2 clicks might help with stability, as Eek suggested.

The following information is from Lsdme's http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...-easytune.html guide.

===========================================
CPU Termination (Vtt) Automatically changes the following if manually set:

CPU Reference Voltage (63% of Default Vtt/1.20) 0.760 ET
CPU Reference2 Voltage (67% of Default Vtt/1.20) 0.800 ET
MCH Reference Voltage (63% of Default Vtt/1.20) 0.760 ET

===========================================
DRAM Voltage Automatically changes the following if manually set:

MCH/DRAM Reference Voltage (50% of Default Dram Voltage)
DRAM Termination Voltage (50% of Default Dram Voltage)
Channel A Reference Voltage (50% of Default Dram Voltage)
Channel B Reference Voltage (50% of Default Dram Voltage)

===========================================
For example if you want to try 1.28 Vtt with 0.780 MCH Ref you must:

1) set Vtt to 1.20 first,
2) then go set MCH Ref to 0.780
3) Then go raise Vtt back to 1.28 and the displayed bios value for MCH Ref will self adjust.
================================================== ===========
When you post your bios template and you've modified any reference volt settings, it will be best if you use the following format:

MCH Reference..........0.760V.........: [0.808V] (0.720V with CPU Termination @ 1.200V)

This tells us that you first set CPU termination = 1.20 (the default setting).
Then you changed MCH Reference to 0.720 volts.
Then you manually set CPU termination back to the desired setting.
In this example, the bios now shows MCH Reference as 0.808.
(Thanks to D-an-W for implementing this convention in his bios settings)

[Ken429]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

ProfJim,
I had a head start on your instructions and have run many stability tests to try and find where exactly the problems starts. Attached is the last good BIOS settings, a screen shot and a log of where I have been and where I tried to go. I took your advice and turned off LLC and upped the Vcore to compensate. I also turned off SMART. However, I hit the wall at about the same FSB as before with LLC and SMART turned on.

Motherboard: Model: GA-EP45-UD3P(rev 1.6) Bios Version:  FD
Cpu: Q9550 E0
Ram: 2X2GB Brand:  Mushkin 996559 [url=http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=661]991599 - 2GB DDR2 PC2-8500 5-5-5-15 Blackline (Module)[/url]
Power Supply Unit: Corsair 620HX

MB Intelligent Tweaker (M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster ---------------- : [Auto] 
CPU Clock Ratio ------------------------ : [ 8 X]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio ------------------- : [+0.5] 
CPU Frequency -----------------------: 3.99GHz( 470X8.5)
Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control ----------------- : [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) --------------- : [ 470]    <====
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ------------ : [ 100]
C.I.A.2 -------------------------------- : [Disabled]
Advanced Clock Control     [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive ------------------------ : [ 800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ---------------- : [ 900mV]
CPU Clock Skew (ps) -------------------- : [   0ps]
MCH Clock Skew (ps) -------------------- : [   0ps]
DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance -------------------- : [Standard]
Extreme Memory Profile --- (X.M.P.) ---- : [Disabled]
(G)MCH Frequency Latch ----------------- : [Auto]
System Memory Multiplier --------------- : [2.00D]
Memory Frequency (Mhz) -----------------: 1066 940
DRAM Timing Selectable -(SPD)----------- : [Manual]
Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time -------- 5 ------------ : [5]  
tRCD -------------------- 7 ------------ : [   5] 
tRP --------------------- 7 ------------ : [   5] 
tRAS ------------------- 24 ------------ : [  15] 
Advanced Timing Control    [Press Enter]
tRRD -------------------- 4 ------------ : [ 3]  
tWTR -------------------- 4 ------------ : [ 3]  
tWR --------------------- 8 -------------: [ 5]  
tRFC --------------------68 ------------ : [52]  
tRTP -------------------- 4 ------------ : [ 3]  
Command Rate (CMD) ------ 0 -------------: [Auto]
Channel A
Channel A Timing Settings  [Press Enter]
Static tRead Value ------ 8 ------------ : [ 9]  
tRD Phase0 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
tRD Phase1 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
tRD Phase2 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
tRD Phase3 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
Trd2rd(Different Rank) -- 8 ------------ : [Auto]
Twr2wr(Different Rank) -- 8 ------------ : [Auto]
Twr2rd(Different Rank) -- 7 ------------ : [Auto]
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) -- 9 ------------ : [Auto]
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control --------------- : [Auto]
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control --------------- : [Auto]
DDR Write Training --------------------- : [Auto]
Channel B
Channel B Timing Settings  [Press Enter]
Static tRead Value ------ 8 ------------ : [ 9]  
tRD Phase0 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
tRD Phase1 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
tRD Phase2 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
tRD Phase3 Adjustment --- 0 ------------ : [Auto]
Trd2rd(Different Rank) -- 8 ------------ : [Auto]
Twr2wr(Different Rank) -- 8 ------------ : [Auto]
Twr2rd(Different Rank) -- 7 ------------ : [Auto]
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) -- 9 ------------ : [Auto]
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control --------------- : [Auto]
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control --------------- : [Auto]
DDR Write Training --------------------- : [Auto]
Channel A Driving Settings [Press Enter]
Driving Strength Profile --------------- : [Auto]
Data Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Cmd  Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Ctrl Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Clk  Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Data Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Cmd  Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Ctrl Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Clk  Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Channel B Driving Settings [Press Enter]
Driving Strength Profile --------------- : [Auto]
Data Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Cmd  Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Ctrl Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Clk  Driving Pull-Up Level ------------- : [Auto]
Data Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Cmd  Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Ctrl Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Clk  Driving Pull-Down Level ----------- : [Auto]
Motherboard Voltage Control
CPU
Voltage Types ----------- Normal ---------- Current
Load-Line Calibration ------------------ : [Disabled]  <====
CPU Vcore --------------- 1.28750V ----- : [1.38125V]  <==== 
CPU Termination --------- 1.200V* ------ : [1.260V]    <==== 
CPU PLL ----------------- 1.500V* ------ : [1.570V]    <====
CPU Reference ----------- 0.760V* ------ : [0.838V]    <====
MCH/ICH
MCH Core ---------------- 1.100V ------- : [1.28V]     <====
MCH Reference ----------- 0.760V ------- : [0.838V]    <====    
MCH/DRAM Ref ------------ 0.900V ------- : [1.020V]
ICH I/O ----------------- 1.500V ------- : [1.570V] 
ICH Core ---------------- 1.100V ------- : [1.200V] 
DRAM
DRAM Voltage ------------ 1.800V ------- : [2.04V] 
DRAM Termination -------- 0.900V ------- : [1.020V]
Channel A Reference ----- 0.900V ------- : [Auto]
Channel B Reference ----- 0.900V ------- : [Auto]
Standard CMOS Features
Floppy A ------------------------------- : [None]
Floppy 3 Mode Support ------------------ : [Disabled]
Advanced Settings
Hard Disk Boot Priority ---------------- : [Press Enter]
Quick Boot ----------------------------- : [Disabled]
First Boot Device ---------------------- : [CDROM]
Second Boot Device --------------------- : [Hard Disk]
Third Boot Device ---------------------- : [Disabled]
Boot Up Floppy Seek -------------------- : [Disabled]
Boot up Num-Lock ----------------------- : [On]
Password Check ------------------------- : [Setup]
HDD S.M.A.R.T. Capability -------------- : [Disabled]   <====
Limit CPUID Max. to 3 ------------------ : [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect -------------- : [Disabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) ---------------- : [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support ------------------- : [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support ----------------- : [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2) ------------ : [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function ---------------------- : [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology -------------- : [Disabled] 
Display For HDD (Secs) ----------------- : [ 0]
Full Screen LOGO Show ------------------ : [Disabled]
Backup BIOS Image to HDD --------------- : [Disabled]
Init Display First --------------------- : [PCI]
Integrated Peripherals
SATA RAID/AHCI Mode -------------------- : [Disabled]
SATA Port0-3 Native Mode --------------- : [Disabled]
Azalia Codec --------------------------- : [Auto]
Onboard H/W 1394 ----------------------- : [Disabled]
Onboard H/W LAN1 ----------------------- : [Enabled]
Onboard H/W LAN2 ----------------------- : [Enabled]
Green Lan ------------------------------ : [Disabled]
Smart LAN1 ----------------------------- : [Press Enter]
Smart LAN2 ----------------------------- : [Press Enter]
Onboard LAN1 Boot ROM ------------------ : [Disabled]
Onboard LAN2 Boot ROM ------------------ : [Disabled]
Onboard SATA/IDE Device ---------------- : [Enabled]
Onboard SATA/IDE Ctrl Mode ------------- : [IDE]
Onboard Serial Port 1 ------------------ : [Disabled]
Onboard Parallel Port ------------------ : [Disabled]
X Parallel Port Mode ------------------- :  SPP
X ECP Mode Use DMA --------------------- :  3
USB 1.0 Controlller -------------------- : [Enabled]
USB 2.0 Controlller -------------------- : [Enabled]
USB Keyboard Function ------------------ : [Enabled]
USB Mouse Function --------------------- : [Enabled]
USB Storage Function ------------------- : [Disabled]
PC Health Status
Reset Case Open Status ----------------- : [Disabled]
CPU Warning Temperature ---------------- : [70 C/150 F]
CPU Fan Warning ------------------------ : [Disabled]
System Fan2 Fail Warning --------------- : [Disabled]
Power Fan Warning ---------------------- : [Disabled]
System Fan1 Fail Warning --------------- : [Disabled]
CPU Smart Fan Control ------------------ : [Enabled]
CPU Samrt Fan Mode --------------------- : [PWM]
Ran Prime95 for 6+ hours
__________________

I will send the spreadsheet log in the next reply.

[Ken429]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

If you are interested.

[Eek]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

I'd go up one notch on PLL and just in case set PL to 10 (might need some high vMCH for lower PL).
***
profJim can you confirm if these affect stability in any way?

• ICH Core = 1.20
• HDD S.M.A.R.T. Capability = Disabled

[kick]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

Dont expect dual core fsb using a quad.
Dont try and exceed 9-10gb/s on memory bandwith
For me best I can get is 9 gb/s read 10 gb/s copy and write.
that is about all the chipset will do it seems.
What I mean is if you are around those figures and you want to run the cpu faster you may have to slacken off memory performance.

[Acebmxer]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

@Ken here are my current settings for 9x475 on my q9650.

Thats what I need to get stable with out llc on. I havent tried upping cpu term to see if i could lower vcore some. But this setting is rock solid for 24/7 use for me. Using 2.00D strap with PL 9. But going from 450 to 475 required a big jump in vcore for me.

[profJim]

Re: UD3P and Q9550 Overclock Problems

Excellent spreadsheet!!
To eliminate memory settings as a possible cause at 475MHz, use the settings in column AD and change:
CPU Host Frequency = 475Mhz.
Set primary memory timings to AUTO, this will probably result in 5-7-7-24 settings.
Set advanced memory timings to AUTO.
Set tRD = 10 for memory channels A & B.
Set Driving Strength = 1066 for memory channels A & B.

After testing with these settings, if there are errors, set DRAM voltage to 2.00 or 2.02 volts and test again.

You might need to increase CPU Termination (VTT).
The general recommendation is that this should be at least 0.05 - 0.10 volts lower than CPU Vcore.
You might need to lower the MCH Reference setting slightly with higher VTT settings.

Many members have stated that with high overclocks, LLC = enabled is required to gain stability. I've seen a few cases where systems passed extended stability testing, but sometimes failed when their systems were at idle.

@Eek
ICH Core = 1.20 is what I use at 492MHz. This should help with stability at high overclocks, but Acebmxer's 1.10 setting is stable on his system.

HDD S.M.A.R.T. Capability = Disabled
Some have claimed that disabling SMART helps with stability. I have it disabled on my systems and my applications have no problem accessing SMART information.