Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

As chike said, ET6 reports refs in a different way. I've gotten used to it as have others but it can be confusing, so best not to worry about it. ET6 will always show MCH and CPU Ref to be what ever figure it becomes at 1.2CPU Term. So if you have 0.760V MCH Ref at 1.2CPU Term then even if you set CPU term to 1.4V, ET6 will still show 0.760V. If you have MCH Ref set to 0.720V @ 1.2V CPU Term, then ET6 will always show 0.72V etc, etc.

The idea of changing MCH Ref when CPU Ref is 1.2V is so that you get the correct % scaling.

Your plan for testing seems good and I look forward to seeing what you find out. Remember though that with a dual core it's usually the case that less MCH Ref is better.

For tuning CPU Term and MCH Ref, set a Vcore you know is enough for the speed you want and do the following:

CPU term to 1.2V, MCH Ref at default 0.760V
Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.760 @1.2 CPU Term

CPU Term to 1.2V and MCH Ref to 0.740V
Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.740 @1.2 CPU Term

CPU Term to 1.2V and MCH Ref to 0.720V
Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.720 @1.2 CPU Term

CPU Term to 1.2V and MCH Ref to 0.700V
Increase CPU term to 1.22, 1.24, 1.26, 1.28, 1.3, 1.32, 1.34, 1.36, 1.38, 1.40, testing after each change to CPU Term. Don't touch MCH ref after initially setting 0.700 @1.2 CPU Term

Lower than 0.700MCH Ref at 1.2V CPU Term isn't often needed, and you should find the best value between 0.760 and 0.70V for a dual core.

Before I continue I need to be clear on something. So when I set the CPU Term to 1.2v the MCH Ref should be .76v. As I ratchet the CPU Term up the MCH Ref should move up automatically (as you said: "so that you get the correct % scaling").

I'm under the impression to set the MCH Ref to Normal forcing .76. So then as the CPU Term is moved up I'm testing at .76v. Then I go to .74v and so on. Not sure there is a way to effectively choose a specific MCH Ref since changing the CPU Term changes the MCH Ref. The reason I think this is because otherwise it would not make any sense to change the CPU Term and the MCH Ref (MCH Ref move % along with CPU Term) as I'm not working with static numbers to see what works. There would be no way to do what you are saying above.

After doing your IBT test and using GFlops I determined that 1.28125v was the number to set for Vcore.

Am I making sense?

Edit: I think I'm clear now. Thanks for everyone's patience. Often I'm multitasking and when working with something new to me I'm not getting clear.

It looks like you have a 5 step process with several steps within each. Here's what I now understand. Go into BIOS and set the CPU Term to 1.2v and the MCH Ref to .76 (default or at least verify it lands there). If this works then I'm golden, if not then next push the CPU Term to 1.22v and make note of what the BIOS shows the MCH Ref (my case .772), if it fails try 1.24v (MCH Ref goes to .785) and so on. If all these tests under the initial .76 MCH Ref fails then move onto MCH Ref .74v and starting at CPU Term 1.2v and use the same process I just detailed above. Correct?

It seems we're trying to accomplish the lowest voltage (Vcore) but still have the power/strength needed, then set the other settings at the lowest values (for "V", Vcore, CPU Term MCH Ref...others) but at the same time changing other settings to improve performance (i.e.: SMM, Dram Timing, Static tRead Value). Finding a balance that works and of course will very between different PCs even with the identical setup.

So is it necessary to reboot every time between every setting and every test for these changes or can you use ET6 to make them? Or is the BIOS the only place to know exactly what you are working with?

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Okay...apparently I'm too impatient or I'm not going to hit the 4Ghz mark (that and too much going on).

I've setup Win 7 Pro 64bit on another disk and I noticed when in System it shows the CPU at 3Ghz instead of 3.83Ghz. I assume this is normal?

Also, when running the performance test in Win 7 I ended up with a 5.9 because the drive scored 5.9. Apparently I need a 10,000RPM drive (using 7200) to get the test up where everything else was hitting (upper 6's)?

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Yes, you can ignore Vista/Windows 7 system properties as it is often wrong. CPU-z will always be correct.

Ya, faster drive or SSD!

Do you still need a answer to your bold question above? If so, yes reboot and use the BIOS for the most part as ET settings are not the same as what you set in the BIOS due to the Vtt changing ref's

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Yes, you can ignore Vista/Windows 7 system properties as it is often wrong. CPU-z will always be correct.

Ya, faster drive or SSD!

Do you still need a answer to your bold question above? If so, yes reboot and use the BIOS for the most part as ET settings are not the same as what you set in the BIOS due to the Vtt changing ref's

Thanks.

As for hitting over 4Ghz. I gave up. Probably due to impatience. Too many variables and rather time consuming. I still want to get it done but no idea when. Kept my machine too tied up. Guess I was lucky with the 3.83 recommendations some time back as they seem to work just fine. Probably should retest those settings under this newer test info I got to be sure though.

[Psycho101]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Even with a 10KRPM Velociraptor you probably won't break 5.9. I've seen a few SAS 15K RAID0 twin drive arrays only getting 6.4. For a dramatic boost to WEI HDD scores, like Lsd says, a SSD is probably needed. Vista WEI concentrated on sequential read write, but Win 7 also extends this to 512K and 4K random write/read. These small er random file sizes is where HDD's fall over big time. I get 0.3MB/s 4K read on my WD6400AAKS but 24MB/s 4K random read on my SSD. That's 80x more performance :thumbsup.

you could always cheat though.... there are a few ways to hack WEI on the net...After all, it's only stored in an XML file.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Well if you need help with 4Ghz ask anytime when you find the time to tinker around

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Well if you need help with 4Ghz ask anytime when you find the time to tinker around

My schedule is more flexible right now. How do we start?

And thanks!

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Even with a 10KRPM Velociraptor you probably won't break 5.9. I've seen a few SAS 15K RAID0 twin drive arrays only getting 6.4. For a dramatic boost to WEI HDD scores, like Lsd says, a SSD is probably needed. Vista WEI concentrated on sequential read write, but Win 7 also extends this to 512K and 4K random write/read. These small er random file sizes is where HDD's fall over big time. I get 0.3MB/s 4K read on my WD6400AAKS but 24MB/s 4K random read on my SSD. That's 80x more performance :thumbsup.

you could always cheat though.... there are a few ways to hack WEI on the net...After all, it's only stored in an XML file.

You know. I just installed a WD GP (Eco/Green Power) hard disk. Apparently they are variable speed and will go to 7200 RPM when called to. I wonder if this may be an issue? Plus, I'm noticing some video issues I didn't before. Like when swapping between app windows and still seeing an image from the previous app. I have my swap file (pagefile) set up on the WD drive.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Ya, I have seen those disks and wondered why anyone would buy one...

Could be an issue? Why did you decide to get it anyway?

Give me your full current settings and I will advise back for what to try next for 4Ghz.

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Ya, I have seen those disks and wondered why anyone would buy one...

Could be an issue? Why did you decide to get it anyway?

Give me your full current settings and I will advise back for what to try next for 4Ghz.

Got it for $49. But my main drive is 7200RPM and the pagefile is on the WD so it causes issues as it's too slow. I talked to a tech at WD and it seems they don't even know what speed except that it's between 5400-7200. I found a spec sheet at the WD site saying it was 7200 so that is why I bought it. I had also read it was variable speed so I figured it would do the job and gear to the speed needed. Not the case. Cleaned the drive and it's going back (Office Max). Order the 640Gb WD Black at Newegg for $49 with free s/h last night as a replacement.

My BIOS settings:

Robust Graphics Booster ...............: [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio .......................: [ 9]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio...................: +0.0
CPU Frequency .........................: 3.83GHz

Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control.................: [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 426Mhz
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ...........: 100

C.I.A.2 ...............................: [Disabled]

Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive........................: 800mV
PCI Express Clock Drive................: 900mV
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps

DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance....................: [STANDARD]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)........: [Disabled]
(G)MCH Frequency Latch.................: Auto
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.40B
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ................: 1022
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Manual]

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.......................: 5
tRCD ..................................: 6
tRP'...................................: 6
tRAS...................................: 18

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...................................: 5
tWTR...................................: 5
tWR....................................: 8
tRFC...................................: 54
tRTP...................................: 5
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: 2

Driving Strength Profiles
Driving Strength ......................: 1066

Channel A
Static tRead Value.....................: 8
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 5
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: [Auto] 8

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
DDR Write Training.....................: [Auto]

Channel B
Static tRead Value.....................: 8
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 1 (odd as it's not 0 and set to auto)
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 5
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: [Auto] 8

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
DDR Write Training.....................: [Auto]

Motherboard Voltage Control
Voltage Type...........................: [Manual]

CPU---------------------Normal-----------Current

Load Line Calibration..................: [Disabled]
CPU Vcore...............1.25000V.......: 1.28750V
CPU Termination.........1.200V.........: 1.200V
CPU PLL.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
CPU Reference...........0.760V.........: [Auto]

MCH/ICH
MCH Core................1.100V.........: 1.220V
MCH Reference...........0.760V.........: [Auto]
MCH/DRAM Reference......0.900V.........: [Auto]
ICH I/O.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
ICH Core................1.100V.........: 1.100V

DRAM
DRAM Voltage............1.800V.........: 2.200V
DRAM Termination........0.900V.........: [Auto]
Channel A Reference.....0.900V.........: [Auto]
Channel B Reference.....0.900V.........: [Auto]

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Ahh, trying to save $$. I know how that can be! Nice to see you found the WD Deal at Newegg, I was going to show you tonight as I just picked up 2 for a client myself today.

So while you wait on Newegg, can you please move your page file back to your main drive so we can test if this is part of the issue or not? Of course if you are using SSD, then don't do this!

Robust Graphics Booster ...............: [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio .......................: [ 9]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio...................: +0.0
CPU Frequency .........................: 4.05GHz

Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control.................: [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 450Mhz
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ...........: 100

C.I.A.2 ...............................: [Disabled]

Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive........................: 800mV
PCI Express Clock Drive................: 900mV
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps

DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance....................: [STANDARD]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)........: [Disabled]
(G)MCH Frequency Latch.................: Auto
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.40B << For now, set 2.66D or 2.00D
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ................: 900-1197
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Manual]

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.......................: 5
tRCD ..................................: 6
tRP'...................................: 6
tRAS...................................: 18

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...................................: 5
tWTR...................................: 5
tWR....................................: 8
tRFC...................................: 54
tRTP...................................: 5
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: 2

Driving Strength Profiles
Driving Strength ......................: 1066 << 1200 may be needed, and could be best try changing last if you have no luck with the rest. Could also set first and try if you like though.

Channel A
Static tRead Value.....................: 8 << Set 9 for now, and you may have to keep it at that depending on your ram
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6 << ** All auto for the following 4 correct? If not set all to Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 5
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: [Auto] 8 **

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
DDR Write Training.....................: [Auto]

Channel B
Static tRead Value.....................: 8 << Set 9 for now, and you may have to keep it at that depending on your ram
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 1 (odd as it's not 0 and set to auto) << Hmm, could be part of your issues? Please set to Auto, if you enter zero it will set Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: [Auto] 0
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: [Auto] 0

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6 << ** All auto for the following 4 correct? If not set all to Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 6
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: [Auto] 5
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: [Auto] 8 **

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: [Auto]
DDR Write Training.....................: [Auto]

Motherboard Voltage Control
Voltage Type...........................: [Manual]

CPU---------------------Normal-----------Current

Load Line Calibration..................: [Disabled] << Enabled
CPU Vcore...............1.25000V.......: 1.28750V << Of course you know this is up to your CPU, some need more and others less. Maybe 1.3-1.45 (I'd start around 1.36-1.4 myself and then lower later)
CPU Termination.........1.200V.........: 1.200V << Maybe 1.28-1.34
CPU PLL.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
CPU Reference...........0.760V.........: [Auto]

MCH/ICH
MCH Core................1.100V.........: 1.220V << 1.20-1.26
MCH Reference...........0.760V.........: [Auto]
MCH/DRAM Reference......0.900V.........: [Auto]
ICH I/O.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
ICH Core................1.100V.........: 1.100V << Set 1.14

DRAM
DRAM Voltage............1.800V.........: 2.200V
DRAM Termination........0.900V.........: [Auto]
Channel A Reference.....0.900V.........: [Auto]
Channel B Reference.....0.900V.........: [Auto]

[SBMongoos]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Ahh, trying to save $$. I know how that can be! Nice to see you found the WD Deal at Newegg, I was going to show you tonight as I just picked up 2 for a client myself today.

So while you wait on Newegg, can you please move your page file back to your main drive so we can test if this is part of the issue or not? Of course if you are using SSD, then don't do this!

Exactly. Watching the budget right now. See this a.m. Newegg has a 750Gb Black for $10 more. Happy with what I ordered though. I'm using a Seagate 250G as my main drive (also for for Win 7 Pro 64bit setup - on another Seagate 250Gb). I have a 3 bay Icy Dock which is quite handy. I wonder though if this new drive (which will be D: and used for storage the swap file for my XP and Win 7 setups) will be an issue for the 250G Seagate as the WD Black is a faster performer with two processors?

I moved the swap file back to C: for now.

I'll probably be trying your BIOS settings shortly and get back to you. Question first. What kind of testing do you want me to try with these settings?

And thanks!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

Ya I saw those 750GB ones today!

Well you should test with memtest86+ 5-10 full passes, then with Orthos or Prime95 for 12-24 hours to be sure of stability. If you have a good cooler you can test with LinX or Intel Burn test 5-10 passes, these are very quick and HOT Tests.

[Psycho101]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

I've been trying to hunt for more details on the Caviar Greens but not come u with much. Closest I got was a Custom PC magazine review where they said "5400-7200 RPM depending on individual drive tuning". Whether this means each is altered at the factory, that it kicks up speed when needed or it's user controlable, I don't know.

There are a couple of utilities out there that can alter Drive settings like AAM (Acoustic Management) and power saving. Maybe turning them off will kicj the drive into 7200 RPM mode. The Greens are useful in certain situations like when using a drive for backup images. As USB is slow any way, using them in USB enclosures is ideal because a high speed drive will operate at the same speeds, due to USB restrictions. Also a nice drive for a HTPC and to upgrade a DVR/TIVO etc. My brother has one in his DVR. It had a 160GB SATA 1 drive so it was a great perf boost and was much quieter and cooler.

The best value drive for performance and capacity atm (at least in the UK) looks to me to be the Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB. It has two 500GB platters, meaning a very high areal density (that = faster transfer rates), has I believe 32 MB of cach and out performs the 1TB WD Black and the other competition at the 1TB mark. It even boots Vista quicker than a Velociraptor. Latency is ofc higher than a Velociraptor, but it's faster in a lot of ways due to high density platters. I think the Velociraptor has 150GB platters.

The Blacks twin drive controllers doesn't make a huge difference. Areal density and latencies are the main limiting factors. The 2TB black is very quick in combination with the two controllers and twin drive head actuators. It's mighty expensive though. You could get 4 Spinpoint F3's for the same price. This way you can set them up in RAID and beat the pants of the single 2TB black.

To make the most of your Swap file, it's a good idea to partition off a section right at the begining of the drive to be used. This will force the swap file onto the very outside of the disk where transfers are fastest and drive heads have the shortest stroke. To illustrate, on my Caviar Blue, at the end of the disk Read is ~70MB/s and write is about 65MB/s. On my swap partition at the begining of the drive the figures are 120MB/s and 116MB/s with slightly improved seek.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Stable E8400 OC - stock voltages

I believe I read somewhere they run just like Intel speedstep, which is slowest when idle and then ramps up to full speed when needed. Which as you know with CPU's is only when maxed out which is rare, and I bet the same applies to these disks.

Which drive you talking about for Tivo? This 5400-7200 one? If so, does he have the IDE model (If there is one) and can you ask him how quiet it is? Getting ready to upgrade my Tivo actually, and been looking at 160GB Drives.

I just setup a RAID array for a client's system using 500GB Black WD drives, and it scores right at 185-190MB/s in HD Tach RW