Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

I see you have 2x2GB and no one has mentioned BIOS settings, They can very often cause issues if left in Auto with 2x2GB and that could be your problem.

Do you set them, or are they in Auto? If you set them, please post what they are and I will let you know if they should be working >>>

This is Just a template I use to ask people their settings, pay no attention to the numbers in it, replace with yours

Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [8]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [450]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]

Performance Enhance = [Standard]

CAS Latency Time________________ ?
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ ?
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______?
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ ?
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ ?
Rank Write to READ Delay________ ?
Write to Precharge Delay_________ ?
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ ?
Read to Precharge Delay__________ ?
Static tRead Value_______________ 1-31
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ [Auto]

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.300V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.25]

Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]

[dylan0451]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

I was under the impression that the VID was a voltage identification - just a recommended, tested working voltage and baseline from the factory, but the max warrantied voltage to run the chip at was 1.3625v

Vorlon, indeed, I'm in essex, england - don't worry though the only hardware i've ever bought from pc world was a cdr-w drive years back!

Lsdmeasap, current bios settings are as below, i followed your advice from the memory sticky, and so far since i lowered my fsb from 400 to 395 the memory passes atleast an hour of orthos and occt memory torture tests

Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [0.5]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [395]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]

Performance Enhance = [Standard]

CAS Latency Time________________ 5
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 18
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3 [auto]
Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3 [auto]
Write to Precharge Delay_________ 6 [auto]
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 52
Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3 [auto]
Static tRead Value_______________ 8 [auto]
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 [auto]

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.1V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.2V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.3250V]

Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Disabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]


anything seem odd? any of those setting i've left on auto that should be changed?

the ram didn't work with those settings at it's full speed but i didn't want to relax them anymore hence i lowered the fsb and it seems to run fine at 790mhz

[Merman]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

That is not a general recommended voltage, what you saw are the limit maximum and minimum that every motherboard maker must add in every board they sell.
Engineering data can't be used without the correct interpretation, you know.

This is correct. This range is the minmum and maximum recommended. Does Intel recommending a lower maximum voltage on the box surprise you??? They also do not recommend overclocking and state that it voids the warranty.

If a processor can run stable at the high maximum range, which most Core2 processors seem to do easily, with less than maximum temperartures it is running fine. The CPU life span is probably reduced but it should last at least three years with the temps its running.

Stressing computer parts is a personal decision with many exceeding recommended limits. In this case the voltage is in the high range but within Intel limits.

[dylan0451]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

Looking at those CPU voltages V-offset .03v and and V-droop .045v are very low. Did you do a V-droop modification???

haven't done any mods to the board - are they good figures? i thought they were a little mediocre but thats good atleast!

when i get the power supply through I'll see if i can get the cpu voltage any lower

running 400fsb - 3.8ghz needed 1.3650v and max temps were 60-65c

now, running 395fsb - 3.750ghz needs only 1.3250v (maybe less) and max temps are now 55-59c

[Merman]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

.....that too is a quote from the data sheet ;) - nothing new there...

The VID range for a given model is obviously wide enough to cater for what ever is churned out from the Intel production line.
The VID is then interogated by the bios and the correct voltage is reported back so that chip can be supplied with the neccessary voltage to operate correctly.

Obviously if your CPU has a low VID (within the products range), then you've got a quality chip.

However according to Intel documetation Absolute maximum VCC remains the same for any given VID.

For the most part this is correct. As pointed out VID is dynamic and there is no set point. The term VID in the BIOS is to set a high point for voltage spike when comming off load. In the mean time the voltage is going up and down many times a second, which is not shown in the reporting programs.

As definded in the Voltage Regulator Down specification in section 1.2 Terminology:

Vcc Processor core voltage defined in the processor datasheet.

VID Voltage Identification: A code supplied by the processor that
determines the reference output voltage to be delivered to the
processor Vcc lands. At zero amperes and the tolerance band at + 3-σ,

VID is the voltage at the processor.

http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/designguide/313214.pdf

[VorLonUK]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

For the most part this is correct. As pointed out VID is dynamic and there is no set point. The term VID in the BIOS is to set a high point for voltage spike when comming off load. In the mean time the voltage is going up and down many times a second, which is not shown in the reporting programs.

As definded in the Voltage Regulator Down specification in section 1.2 Terminology:

I was trying to put it into laymans terms rather than quoting from:-

http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/designguide/313214.pdf

;-)

Dylan,

I was under the impression that the VID was a voltage identification - just a recommended, tested working voltage and baseline from the factory, but the max warrantied voltage to run the chip at was 1.3625v

Like the others have said, Intel doesn't want you changing any voltages. VID has been setup to avoid voltage/power issues with the CPU and Intels Board partners etc.
The good people at Gigabyte, Asus, Abit etc, allow us to tweak at our own risk.
I think (someone correct me) that it has only been in recent years that Intel have added advanced options to their own boards.

[Merman]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

haven't done any mods to the board - are they good figures? i thought they were a little mediocre but thats good atleast!

when i get the power supply through I'll see if i can get the cpu voltage any lower

running 400fsb - 3.8ghz needed 1.3650v and max temps were 60-65c

now, running 395fsb - 3.750ghz needs only 1.3250v (maybe less) and max temps are now 55-59c

V-offset and V-droop are Intel design guidelines for operating the CPU. Some think that with less offset and/or droop that they can run the processor at higher MHz because it is running at higher voltage. Theoretically the less droop the less protection unless the voltage regulator is doing a great job of quickly adjusting to the required voltages. For comparison my P35-DS3L has .044v offset and droop of .06v using a 1.10v in the bios. I wouldn't worry about it if the board is not hacked.

[VorLonUK]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

V-offset and V-droop are Intel design guidelines for operating the CPU. Some think that with less offset and/or droop that they can run the processor at higher MHz because it is running at higher voltage. Theoretically the less droop the less protection unless the voltage regulator is doing a great job of quickly adjusting to the required voltages. For comparison my P35-DS3L has .044v offset and droop of .06v using a 1.10v in the bios. I wouldn't worry about it if the board is not hacked.

Have you measured your VCC on one of the many CPU supply pins with a certified calibrated DVM vs the VRM output (within mm) to establish the true volt drop?

Edit:- I should have elaborated more. I'm curious as to how motherboard makes/models vary accross the board in terms of PCB current capacity (ie VRM to CPU) and the quality of the VRM to cope with high current surges.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

I was under the impression that the VID was a voltage identification - just a recommended, tested working voltage and baseline from the factory, but the max warrantied voltage to run the chip at was 1.3625v

Vorlon, indeed, I'm in essex, england - don't worry though the only hardware i've ever bought from pc world was a cdr-w drive years back!

Lsdmeasap, current bios settings are as below, i followed your advice from the memory sticky, and so far since i lowered my fsb from 400 to 395 the memory passes atleast an hour of orthos and occt memory torture tests

Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [0.5]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [395]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]

Performance Enhance = [Standard]

CAS Latency Time________________ 5
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 18
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 3 [auto]
Rank Write to READ Delay________ 3 [auto]
Write to Precharge Delay_________ 6 [auto]
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 52
Read to Precharge Delay__________ 3 [auto]
Static tRead Value_______________ 8 [auto]
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0 [auto]

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.1V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.2V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.3250V]

Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Disabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]


anything seem odd? any of those setting i've left on auto that should be changed?

the ram didn't work with those settings at it's full speed but i didn't want to relax them anymore hence i lowered the fsb and it seems to run fine at 790mhz

Well that wont work best in Auto, but nothing looks odd. Can you post a screenshot of MemSet, linked in below thread, so I can see what Auto is giving you for those values. >>>

http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/memory-timings-explained-w-suggested-timings-memset-vs-bios-27283/

But as for your main concern, YES! I would be for sure be buying a new PSU for a few reasons. One being 500W while it may be enough per the calculator for your PC it is getting close. And since it is old it may be wearing out. And secondly, also since it is old & OEM, It may not have been made like todays Power Supply's are with proper Rails.

That one may have enough Amps on the 12V rail to support your Card (maybe not though) but either way, at that full of a draw on it the rail may not have enough to fully power everything properly and could be overheating or just failing because of noise or draw amount within the rail at the load put on it.

I would get a new one anyway, even if it was not the issue. A 4 year old PSU should not be used, and a OEM one also should not be used. You Power Supply is THE MOST important part of your system and should NEVER be skimped on.

This one is the One I would pick for a few reasons. PC Power and Cooling make Great PSU's and that is a good price, and it has a Single 60A 12V rail (By the way, new link as yours did not work for me) >>>
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W Red Silencer Psu SLI Quad Crossfire :: evilgaming.co.uk

[Merman]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

I was trying to put it into laymans terms rather than quoting from:-

http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/designguide/313214.pdf

;-)

Dylan,

Yea, I understand but I have found if dumbed down too much it is incorrect. Also if the correct definition is used there is no arguing about the meaning or concept.

[VorLonUK]

Cheap Computer Power Supplies at Ebuyer - Huge Range In Stock Now!

[Lsdmeasap]

[Merman]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

Have you measured your VCC on one of the many CPU supply pins with a certified calibrated DVM vs the VRM output (within mm) to establish the true volt drop?

No. I suppose I could but CPUZ is close enough for me. I'm not going to hack the board trying to get the last Hz possible. As a matter of fact I'm back to stock becasue running my memory at tRD of 5 I don't notice the difference between a 20% overclock on my E8400. Going higher than 3.6 GHz doesn't seem worth the increases of temperatures and performance. I tried it but I'm not the type to do things just so I can say I'm doing it. I also don't do anything exotic with the computer where I would see a major difference.

Of course that could change at any minute.

[VorLonUK]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

[dylan0451]

Re: Can someone confirm my power supply is up the creek?!

Lsdmeasap

i'm at work at the mo, when i get home i'll install memset and post up a screenshot

after reading the pc p&c myths exposed: Power Supply Myths Exposed!

gave me good enough reason to think that they know their onions - i was one step away from buying another semi budget (jeantech) supply just because it had a 120mm fan and thought that'd be good daft i know

the supply you correctly linked to is what i've just ordered, i think it works out at about $165 USD pricey maybe but one of the best prices i could find in england!

vorlonuk

to be honest, i think that i could have probably saved the money and got a pc power + cooling 610w supply, but then it would be operating at about 70% output compared to the 750w's 57% - which should be a plus on the longevity side of things for the future?!

I was trying to put it into laymans terms rather than quoting from:-
http://www.intel.com/assets/pdf/designguide/313214.pdf

;-)

Dylan,



Like the others have said, Intel doesn't want you changing any voltages. VID has been setup to avoid voltage/power issues with the CPU and Intels Board partners etc.
The good people at Gigabyte, Asus, Abit etc, allow us to tweak at our own risk.
I think (someone correct me) that it has only been in recent years that Intel have added advanced options to their own boards.

thanks for putting it into laymens/laymans?! terms, it's always good to have people explain these things! i got half an A level in electronics back in the day, buy i don't remember a whole lot of it !

just going back to the cpu voltage....does that then mean, hypothetically, say i put in the bios cpu voltage 1.4v then in windows the drop then read 1.3620v that it would be operating within intel specs, or would i actually still be putting 1.4v through it?!