Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Even the best P35 motherboards will probably have problems with quad core processors running with the FSB about 475MHz or higher.
With higher end P45 motherboards, you should be able to go higher.

From: AnandTech | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - P45 at its Finest, page 6:

Q9550 4GB Results
Our maximum overclock on air-cooling with the Q9550 resulted in a 4.25GHz clock speed at a respectable 500MHz FSB with our 4GB G.Skill memory kit set to DDR2-1000 at 5-5-4-15 timings. The primary voltages settings were 1.36V NB, 1.38V VTT, 1.70V PLL, 2.00V VDimm, and 1.425V for the CPU. We tried to run the memory higher, but could not get stability at the DDR2-1200 mark in Nero Recode or Crysis. Vdroop was approximately -.02V with Load Line Calibration (LLC) enabled and -.035V with it disabled at idle. Under load Vdroop was -.025V with LLC enabled and -.05V with it disabled.

Q9550 8GB Results
We were able to reach the same 8.5x500 for a 4.25GHz clock speed with 8GB at DDR2-1000 with 5-5-5-15 timings. However, our voltage settings changed to 1.38V NB, 1.40V VTT, 1.70V PLL, 2.06V VDimm, and 1.450V for the CPU to compensate for the additional load on the MCH. Under load Vdroop was -.02V with LLC enabled and -.05V with it disabled.

E8600 Results
Our maximum overclock on air-cooling with the E8600 came with a blistering 4.40GHz clock speed at a fully stable 550MHz FSB rate. Our 4GB G.Skill memory kit allowed us to reach DDR2-1100 at 5-5-5-18 settings. We used the following voltage settings: 1.40V NB, 1.36V VTT, 1.72V PLL, 2.08V VDimm, and 1.500V for the CPU. We had to drop to 8x500 to get 8GB stable while keeping VDimm below 2.1V, PLL below 1.80V, and NB below 1.50V. Vdroop was approximately -.01V with Load Line Calibration (LLC) enabled and -.025V with it disabled at idle. Under load Vdroop was -.02V with LLC enabled and -.04V with it disabled.

E8600 Additional Results
We knew we had a good E8600, so we pulled out our CoolIT Systems Freezone Elite kit and decided to see how far we could get on this board. We ended up at 5GHz with a 10x CPU multiplier and FSB set to 500. We installed 8GB of memory and ran it at DDR2-1000 with 5-5-5-15 timings. We used the following voltage settings: 1.42V NB, 1.40V VTT, 1.76V PLL, 2.04V VDimm, and 1.5675V (1.550V was stable after raising NB to 1.46V) for the CPU. This is the first time we have reached a stable 5GHz with this processor in a P45 board. Vdroop was similar to our results above.

Thoughts

As I recall, the recommendation in our forum for PLL was not to go higher 1.60 volts.
Some of the TT Q9550/Q9650 4.20GHz or higher threads were able to lower several volt settings by tweaking the Reference Volt settings and in some occasions modifying two of the Clock Skew settings.

[SmOgER]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

From: AnandTech | Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P - P45 at its Finest, page 6:

Q9550 4GB Results
Our maximum overclock on air-cooling with the Q9550 resulted in a 4.25GHz clock speed at a respectable 500MHz FSB with our 4GB G.Skill memory kit set to DDR2-1000 at 5-5-4-15 timings. The primary voltages settings were 1.36V NB, 1.38V VTT, 1.70V PLL, 2.00V VDimm, and 1.425V for the CPU. We tried to run the memory higher, but could not get stability at the DDR2-1200 mark in Nero Recode or Crysis. Vdroop was approximately -.02V with Load Line Calibration (LLC) enabled and -.035V with it disabled at idle. Under load Vdroop was -.025V with LLC enabled and -.05V with it disabled.

So like I said, it's 500FSB for a quad. And if your MB isn't one of the best, or simply one of the dozens of voltages needs to be clinically tweaked, or the chip doesn't like it, or whatever the random or small the reason is, not all people can reach that, but yeah that's a theoretical maximum overclock. And let's not forget that Q9550 is worse than X5460, as it's multiplier is 8.5 as opposed to 9.5. So if motherboard can handle Q9550 @ 4.25Ghz it's very likely it will handle X5460 @ 4.75Ghz as well. Performance wise I believe that's equal to Q6600 @ ~5.4Ghz if that chip could handle that (easier to understand the potential that way haha), so it's pretty damn impressive. Way faster than Phenom II X4 975 3.6Ghz and probably equal to Phenom II X6 1100T (with all 6 cores fully utilized), which is the fastest processor for original AM3 socket and was pretty popular not long ago.

I don't take that as granted, but I think these Xeons might be cherry picked as well, so vcore shouldn't be a big problem neither.

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EDIT: Actually it might be even an understatement about that Phenom 1100T. Hard to say for sure, but it's possible the overclocked Xenon is even faster than that and digging into Sandy Bridge territory.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

@SmOgER

Right now it looks like you are the TweakTown Asus guru.
Why? Because there are very few (if any?) forum members with Asus questions or answers.

I'm going over to the dark side in about 10 days when I receive my virtually brand new Asus P5Q Premium motherboard.
It looks like it was once one of the higher end Asus P45 motherboard models and it's layout and features are certainly out of the ordinary.

The question is will it be able to fly with the eagles or will it turn out to be a turkey. Time will tell.
I'm curious to see if the ASUS Drive Xpert is a useful feature or if it's just hype.

My goal is to see how close I can come to AnandTech's Q9550/EP45-UD3P overclock with 8GB of memory.
I'm not ruling out a 771 mod setup with a Xeon cpu, but my primary goal is for my system to boot with 9.0 x 601MHz = 5.40GHz.
Stability is not a requirement, I just need to boot into windows as quickly as possible.

The first thing that I'll do is to flash using the latest Asus standard bios and then I'll need to do some research to see if there there are any Asus utilities that I should avoid using. I won't be doing any bios flashing in windows.

My P35-DS4 motherboard has been a joy to work with, but now it's time to see how much better I can do with my Q9650 and a higher end P45 motherboard.

I've already downloaded all of the utilities and bios versions from the Asus website.

[SmOgER]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Yep, that mobo is certainly from the top shelf. It's a shame it doesn't support DDR3 tho...

As for the overclock, the anandtech hit 500FSB with Q9550 I believe, not 600FSB.
600FSB is really no joke with a quad and most of the time the mobo won't even post at these settings. I would imagine you would be much better off with X5470 and it's 10 multi. You could sell your Q9550 for much more than these Xeons cost and yet they are made from a cherry picked silicone (most probably).

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

My comment about booting with a 600MHz FSB was not serious.

From what I've seen recently, it looks like the average price for a Q9650 is about $150 and a similar Xeon cpu would cost about $50 or less.

This could be a great deal for someone who wants a high end quad core for an upgrade but doesn't want to spend a lot of money.

Luke has been having some strange stability issues with moderate overclocks with his 771 mod setup and I wonder if his current lower end motherboard is part of the problem. I too have a low end P35-DS3L and its a great motherboard for a low cost setup. When I bought an E6300 (R0) cpu several years ago, I was disappointed that it's stock 2.80GHz cpu speed could only be overclocked to 3.60GHz on the P35-DS3L. It's possible that we are asking too much from a budget motherboard. When Luke gets back from his vacation he will starting over with a higher end motherboard. We will see if his new motherboard helps him with overclocking his Xeon cpu.

From Silicon or Silicone: Whats the Difference | Silicon Chips Silicone Implants -- livescience.com:

It may come as a surprise, but silicon and silicone are two very different things.

In short, silicon is a naturally occurring chemical element, whereas silicone is a synthetic substance.

Silicon is the 14th element on the periodic table. It's a metalloid, meaning it has properties of both metals and nonmetals, and is the second most abundant element in the Earth's crust, after oxygen.

Silicon readily bonds with oxygen and is rarely found in nature in its pure form. You've likely seen silicon as silicon dioxide or silica, better known as quartz, which is the most common component of sand.

Silica also comes in other mineral forms, such as flint, jasper and opal. When silicon and oxygen mix with reactive metals, the result is a class of minerals called silicates, which includes granite, feldspar and mica.

Silicon has many industrial uses: As silica, silicon is a key ingredient in bricks, concrete and glass. In its silicate form, the element is used to make enamels, pottery and ceramics.

Elemental silicon is a major player in modern electronics because it's an ideal semiconductor of electricity. When heated into a molten state, silicon can be formed into semi-conductive wafers, to serve as the base for integrated circuits (microchips).

In fact, Silicon Valley, the southern region of the San Francisco Bay Area, earned its name due to the high concentration of computer and electronics companies in the area producing silicon-based semiconductors and chips.

Silicone, by contrast, is a synthetic polymer made up of silicon, oxygen and other elements, most typically carbon and hydrogen. Silicone is generally a liquid or a flexible, rubberlike plastic, and has a number of useful properties, such as low toxicity and high heat resistance. It also provides good electrical insulation.

In the medical field, silicone can be found in implants, catheters, contact lenses, bandages and a variety of other things. You can also find silicone in a number of personal care items, including shampoos, shaving cream, personal lubricants and sex toys.

Due to its high heat resistance, silicone makes up a lot of kitchenware, such as oven mitts, tongs and pan handles; silicone's non-stick properties also make it useful for cookware coatings. Additionally, the material's heat resistance and slipperiness make it an ideal lubricant for automotive parts (as a lubricating spray or grease).

In other industries, silicone is commonly used as a sealant for watertight containers (e.g., aquariums) and plumbing pipes.

[Evan Wins]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Hey, I just joined up because of this thread after sitting here reading through its entirety.
Thank you for posting up all this information/test logs, I will be referring to this along with a few other threads while overclocking this X5460 I picked up.

If you guys want I can post up my results, we will see what I can get too with a Coolermaster 212 Evo.... (don't laugh).. I am still waiting to find a good deal on a closed loop cooler.

I have been running a pin modded Q6700 @ 3.33ghz in a Dell Studio 0m017g for the last 9 months, my temps can get up to 62-67 MAX while gaming (I have speedstep off, Idles around 56-60) however heat increase happens when my room is seriously like... 78+ degree's... it's a freaking hot box up here......
I am switching to the X5460 because I picked up a EVGA 790i SLI FTW (with one bent pin and a broken RAM clip) for $30!!!

I would love it if I could hit 4.0, I feel like this board will give me a good shot at it (it supports DDR3) one question I have for profJim, what cooler are you using to run that Q9650 at 4.10ghz? (my current cooler would melt like solder lol).

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Hi Evan, welcome to the forum.

I'm using the Cooler Master Seidon 120XL AIO cooler in my HAF XB computer case.
Some of my Prime95 and LinX stress testing was done when the room temperature was 80^o(F) and cpu core temperatures ranged from 65^o - 80^o(C).

Earlier Nvidia based motherboards like the 650i and 680i frequently had very high NB and motherboard temperatures and this might be an issue with your motherboard. Sata ssd and hard drive performance with Nvidia based boards will probably be inferior to my P35 Intel sata2 performance.

My best guesstimate is that you probably won't notice any difference between 3.75GHz and and 4.00GHz cpu speeds.
Feel free to post your o/c results in this thread.


This is a picture of my cpu cooling setup:



uncompressed, high resolution 9.4MB image

**edit** The model name should be 120XL in the picture, not XL120.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Check out the Scythe Mugen 4 cpu cooler.
It is MASSIVELY HUGE.
It is not for systems that have very tall memory heat spreaders.
HardOCP includes it in their AIO cooler reviews because of its high performance and much lower price, cost is $40 - $50.

.... we will see what I can get too with a Coolermaster 212 Evo.... (don't laugh).. I am still waiting to find a good deal on a closed loop cooler.

....(my current cooler would melt like solder lol).

I wouldn't dismiss your 212 EVO so quickly.
Check out Scythe Mugen 4 Review | techPowerUp and see how your CM 212 EVO compares with the Mugen 4 and Seidon 120XL coolers.

Add a matching 2nd fan to the EVO or the Mugen and you will probably see an additional 2^o - 3^o(C) drop in core temperatures under high heat and load conditions.

[SmOgER]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

profJim, what vcore you are running at this Q9650? These temps seems a bit high to me considering you are on water. I admit I don't have experience with liquid cooling, but blowing hot air back inside the case (from radiator) doesn't look right to me. You have intake air which is as warm as radiator.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Common sense says that you are right, reality proves the opposite.
Many users report that there can be 1^o or 2^o(C) lower vcore temperatures when the "cooler" room air is drawn through the radiator INTO the case.

This too bothered me and my initial setup exhausted the radiator's heat out the back of the case.
With this setup, cooling performance was very good and unfortunately my AOI cooler was as loud as I expected with fan speeds in the 2000+ range.

A month or two later I removed each fan and reversed the air flow direction so that the room's air was now drawn in to the computer case. With the new fan setup running Prime95 and LinX stress tests, core temperatures were slightly lower. I normally keep my room temperature in the 67^o - 69^o(F) range.

With this new setup I was amazed at how much quieter the fan noise was under full load!!

My HAF XB case has two unobstructed front panel 120mm fans.
The fan on the right front is exhausting air out of the case and the left front fan is blowing room air into the case.
I also have a top mounted 200mm fan exhausting air out of the case.
The lower case compartment has two 80mm Arctic Cooling fans to help cool my ssd and hard drive.
Overall my case has a slightly positive pressure setup to help cut down on dust accumulation.

Another thought, even with excellent airflow through your case, do you want this heated interior air trying to cool your radiator?

Look at my posted HWiNFO64 screen-shots and you can see the maximum core temperatures during my tests.
Luke's "reported" temperatures really bothered me in the beginning, but this might be related to the TjMax 80 versus 100 issue with his Xeon cpu.

[SmOgER]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Yeah, after a bit of research about water cooling I found out that indeed this solution is better, since it keeps the circulation going by cooling the radiator. I deleted my post but apparently you were writing a reply to it already.

With your corrent setup it's best to have exhaust on the top of the case.

btw, what vcore you are running it at?

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Your deleted post brought up good questions that I'm sure many others have thought about.
With your permission I can restore your post and you can re-edit it if you want.

With the horizontal layout of my case, I wanted the inlet tube to the water pump to be at the bottom of the radiator. Technically almost all AIO water cooling setups are sealed systems. Over time coolant can apparently evaporate and I prefer that any air bubbles are in the exhaust tube of the water pump. I don't see this as a significant consideration. For aesthetic reasons, I would have preferred that the radiator's tubes were next to the side of the case.
So what if my current tube routing impedes air flow by an additional 0.314159%.

**edit**
Vcore settings in the 4GHz range for my setup are in the range 1.37500 - 1.38750 volts while testing for stability for my Q9650.

Within 10 days my other system will be running an air cooled Q9550 with an EP45-UD3P rev 1.1 motherboard.
My Q9650 cpu will move into an Asus P5Q Premium motherboard.

[SmOgER]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Your deleted post brought up good questions that I'm sure many others have thought about.
With your permission I can restore your post and you can re-edit it if you want.

Sure, go ahead. ;)

**edit**
Vcore settings in the 4GHz range for my setup are in the range 1.37500 - 1.38750 volts while testing for stability for my Q9650.

Within 10 days my other system will be running an air cooled Q9550 with an EP45-UD3P rev 1.1 motherboard.
My Q9650 cpu will move into an Asus P5Q Premium motherboard.

That's interesting, cause the vcore isn't really that high.

I'am running mine 65nm Q6600 at crazy 1.55v vcore (I don't take no as answer, and that was the only way it would make 3.3Ghz since one core was constantly failing on prime95, it was barely stable on stock clock with 1.325v vid, lol) with a simple CM TX3 air cooler, but the temps still don't exceed 80C. That's why I'am so confident I can push those 45nm chips to 4Ghz-4.5Ghz without destroying them on air. Can't wait for this X5460 to arrive and see how it goes. :)

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

WARNING!!!
There are a whole bunch of $10 words in this post.

I'am running mine 65nm Q6600 at crazy 1.55v vcore (I don't take no as answer, and that was the only way it would make 3.3Ghz since one core was constantly failing on prime95, it was barely stable on stock clock with 1.325v vid, lol) with a simple CM TX3 air cooler, but the temps still don't exceed 80C. That's why I'am so confident I can push those 45nm chips to 4Ghz-4.5Ghz without destroying them on air. Can't wait for this X5460 to arrive and see how it goes. :)

OK, now I get it, we're dealing with an extremophile.
Most of us are mesophiles or neutrophiles.

From Extremophile - Wikipedia

An extremophile is an organism that thrives in physically or geochemically extreme conditions that are detrimental to most life on Earth. In contrast, organisms that live in more moderate environments may be termed mesophiles or neutrophiles.

Clearly "live long and prosper" doesn't apply to your cpu.
Your motto seems to be: Go for the gusto now and the hell with tomorrow.
I'm not being critical; different strokes for different folks.

Are you familiar with degredation of electrical components due to electromigration?

From Electromigration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Electromigration is the transport of material caused by the gradual movement of the ions in a conductor due to the momentum transfer between conducting electrons and diffusing metal atoms. The effect is important in applications where high direct current densities are used, such as in microelectronics and related structures. As the structure size in electronics such as integrated circuits (ICs) decreases, the practical significance of this effect increases.

Electromigration decreases the reliability of chips (integrated circuits (ICs)). It can cause the eventual loss of connections or failure of a circuit. Since reliability is critically important for space travel, military purposes, anti-lock braking systems, medical equipment like Automated External Defibrillators and is even important for personal computers or home entertainment systems, the reliability of chips (ICs) is a major focus of research efforts.

Please create a detailed hardware list in the System Specs portion of your
forum profile at the bottom of the profile page or in your forum signature.
Be sure to include brand names and model numbers.
When you are done editing or creating your hardware list, save the settings.

[SmOgER]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

WARNING!!!
There are a whole bunch of $10 words in this post.

OK, now I get it, we're dealing with an extremophile.
Most of us are mesophiles or neutrophiles.

From Extremophile - Wikipedia

Clearly "live long and prosper" doesn't apply to your cpu.
Your motto seems to be: Go for the gusto now and the hell with tomorrow.
I'm not being critical; different strokes for different folks.

Are you familiar with degredation of electrical components due to electromigration?

Yea, that's on extreme side I guess.

Yet still, these 65nm chips are extremely durable, and as for Q6600, only voltages above 1.55v are believed to considerably shorten the lifespan of it. How many stories have you heard about failed 65nm C2Qs due to high voltages? I bet not many, if at all. That's quite a long time I've been running it like that, and still no problems whatsoever. Besides, now that we have these LGA771 adapters, these chips are reaaaally dirt cheap to replace. Even for QX9770 there is a great alternative - X5470. It doesn't come with unlocked multiplier, but x10 is good for up to 5Ghz, and that's obviously more than enough.