CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

[boondocks]

Please allow my uneducated questions and observations, sorry for long post;
1) Using hwinfo64 (latest) , I"m noticing the cpu cores cycling from 1.604 up to 4.513 and back at idle after the machine has been on without reboot overnight, only running uTorrent. Why is this?
2) Also the core voltage reading on cpuid seems to accurately show the Vtt, I thought it was supposed to show Vcore?
3) After extensive operation and reboot, BIOS shows core temps in the mid 30's, although after boot the temps rise to about 40 and stay there as reported by CoreTemp and hwinfo64.

My overclocking has hit a wall due to high temps, yesterday I saw 88*c during Prime95 (latest version) and stopped the program. At this point Vcore setting is 1.380, anything lower and I BSOD 0124.
Vtt is 1.065, although in BIOS Vcore and Vtt numbers read higher on the current status page. What else, oh, PLL is set at 1.75.
If Vtt is left on Auto I get BSOD 0101, so as I said at this point is bumped to 1.068.

I have removed the Hyper 212+ cpu cooler and reapplied thermal paste (the paste from Noctua because I had some) but no change in temps. I added a 120mm vortex fan to the case side and tried both high and low positions, pulling and pushing air from the case, and I have added a second fan to the 212 so it's in push/pull configuration but no relief on the temps. (looking at better cpu coolers, but still don't understand why temps so high)

So to summarize:
Turbo clocks set x45
Vtt set 1.065
Vcore set 1.380
Pll set 1.75
High core temperatures a problem

comments more than welcome, I have to be out this morning but will check back this afternoon.

[Acebmxer]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

To me it all sound about normal. By normal I mean no software out there is 100% perfect. I would not trust hwinfo64 for voltage reading or for core temp monitoring. For voltages I would use ET6 to see what Auto is setting but still that is only going to show you what is being set not what is currect as voltage will change from what is set in bios to what you see at idle to what you see at load. This goes for the bios also, you can set vcore to 1.4v but after reboot and enter bios it may show 1.375 or 1.395 but in windows it may show 1.39, 1.375 or less then when you load it could be more. This call Vdrop and Vdroop. All natrual and something you have to fight against. LLC for vcore was implimented to help fight against this for vcore.

I strongly recommend using Real Temp to monitor core temps, its a light program (file size and resources and is updated more offten). Cpu-z should be used to read vcore and cpu speed.

With software you have to make sure you are using the latest version of it and compair it to other software not just 1 to say its wrong.

[wazza300]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

could try a lower llc and more dvid,higher llc tend to make the cpu speed/voltages jump around more at idle

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

Please allow my uneducated questions and observations, sorry for long post;
1) Using hwinfo64 (latest) , I"m noticing the cpu cores cycling from 1.604 up to 4.513 and back at idle after the machine has been on without reboot overnight, only running uTorrent. Why is this?
2) Also the core voltage reading on cpuid seems to accurately show the Vtt, I thought it was supposed to show Vcore?
3) After extensive operation and reboot, BIOS shows core temps in the mid 30's, although after boot the temps rise to about 40 and stay there as reported by CoreTemp and hwinfo64.

My overclocking has hit a wall due to high temps, yesterday I saw 88*c during Prime95 (latest version) and stopped the program. At this point Vcore setting is 1.380, anything lower and I BSOD 0124.
Vtt is 1.065, although in BIOS Vcore and Vtt numbers read higher on the current status page. What else, oh, PLL is set at 1.75.
If Vtt is left on Auto I get BSOD 0101, so as I said at this point is bumped to 1.068.

I have removed the Hyper 212+ cpu cooler and reapplied thermal paste (the paste from Noctua because I had some) but no change in temps. I added a 120mm vortex fan to the case side and tried both high and low positions, pulling and pushing air from the case, and I have added a second fan to the 212 so it's in push/pull configuration but no relief on the temps. (looking at better cpu coolers, but still don't understand why temps so high)

So to summarize:
Turbo clocks set x45
Vtt set 1.065
Vcore set 1.380
Pll set 1.75
High core temperatures a problem

comments more than welcome, I have to be out this morning but will check back this afternoon.

1. Sounds like you have speedstep enabled still (C1E, and EIST, possibly C3/C6 also)
2. Use the latest BIOS, and the latest version of CPU-z, then it will show Vcore not Vtt
3. BIOS only shows CPU temps, not core temps

I think you need a much larger cooler if you want to push overclocks/voltages any higher, the Hyper 212+ is a semi-budget range cooler, intended for mid-range overclocks while still having a decent price.

[boondocks]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

To me it all sound about normal. By normal I mean no software out there is 100% perfect. I would not trust hwinfo64 for voltage reading or for core temp monitoring. For voltages I would use ET6 to see what Auto is setting but still that is only going to show you what is being set not what is currect as voltage will change from what is set in bios to what you see at idle to what you see at load. This goes for the bios also, you can set vcore to 1.4v but after reboot and enter bios it may show 1.375 or 1.395 but in windows it may show 1.39, 1.375 or less then when you load it could be more. This call Vdrop and Vdroop. All natrual and something you have to fight against. LLC for vcore was implimented to help fight against this for vcore.

I strongly recommend using Real Temp to monitor core temps, its a light program (file size and resources and is updated more offten). Cpu-z should be used to read vcore and cpu speed.

With software you have to make sure you are using the latest version of it and compair it to other software not just 1 to say its wrong.

OK. I have RealTemp v3.70, I do use it sometimes-seems that all the temp readings from different programs follow pretty closely on average.
I have been using ET6 to take "snaphots" with the snipping tool to help me keep up with settings.
Thanks, especially for the tip on LLC - I didn't know that.

[boondocks]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

could try a lower llc and more dvid,higher llc tend to make the cpu speed/voltages jump around more at idle

What is dvid called in Gigabyte BIOS?
I'll try some more LLC adjustments. Right now I really need another cooler before I can go any further, looking at Noctua NH-D14 & the Phantex, trying to figure out which if any will give more RAM clearance.
After Prime 95 finishes the 448K round in blend test the temps are really shooting up and I'm not brave enough to go to 90*c.

[boondocks]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

1. Sounds like you have speedstep enabled still (C1E, and EIST, possibly C3/C6 also)
2. Use the latest BIOS, and the latest version of CPU-z, then it will show Vcore not Vtt
3. BIOS only shows CPU temps, not core temps

I think you need a much larger cooler if you want to push overclocks/voltages any higher, the Hyper 212+ is a semi-budget range cooler, intended for mid-range overclocks while still having a decent price.

EIST is disabled. Will post more about this when I take another look at the BIOS.
I'm using F9g BIOS-it should be the same as F9, or is it not? I went to F9g shortly after installing the board because of boot loops and it seemed to cure the problem for me.
what is difference between cpu temp and core temp? The BIOS has 4 separate readings for the cpu on one screen, and on another screen shows what I assume is the single package temp?

[wazza300]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

What is dvid called in Gigabyte BIOS?
I'll try some more LLC adjustments. Right now I really need another cooler before I can go any further, looking at Noctua NH-D14 & the Phantex, trying to figure out which if any will give more RAM clearance.
After Prime 95 finishes the 448K round in blend test the temps are really shooting up and I'm not brave enough to go to 90*c.

i have the noctua,but im using low profile ram,max temp at 4.5ghz is 71c,ive got some mx4 to apply though,dvid is called dvid,are you running a fixed cpu voltage? it will only unlock dvid if cpu voltage is set to auto or normal

[Acebmxer]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

Cpu temp is supposed to be the physical temp of the cpu is self. This will never be accurate as there is no sensor in the cpu to read its temp. The sensor that this temp comes from is located in the motherboard. The only way to get a accurate read is to have a sensor in between the cpu and the heatsink. This is also know as Tjcase

Core temps are the temps of the physical cores in side the cpu. These are used for throttling only, people have started using them for temp readings as you can when the cpu is about to start to throttle. Each cpu has a max temp at which is start to throttle for my i7-920 its 100c this is Tjmax.

Core temps can be in accurate at colder temps as they are only see when the tjmax is going close to start throttling to save the cpu. You may see that each core temp might not read the same. It could be possible issue with thermal paste or how the cpu cooler is mounted. If after remounting the cooler temps still read the same then some chips have different Tjmax to help with throttling. So all 4 or more cores dont all shut down at once even if it is for micro seconds.

It is suggested that you keep core temps 20c from tjmax. Most cpus are around 100c for tjmax so we usally say to keep core temps at or under 80c. In theory the cpu should start to throttle from hitting Tjmax before hitting Tjcase unless your cpu cooler fell off and is just hanging there.

[boondocks]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

i have the noctua,but im using low profile ram,max temp at 4.5ghz is 71c,ive got some mx4 to apply though,dvid is called dvid,are you running a fixed cpu voltage? it will only unlock dvid if cpu voltage is set to auto or normal

OK. Had to set Vcore from "Auto" to "Normal to unlock dvid. But the system did not like it and would not boot. For now I set it back to "Auto".
BTW ordered Noctua, will deal with RAM when/if I see the fitment. Site says my RAM compatible. :shrug:

[boondocks]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

Cpu temp is supposed to be the physical temp of the cpu is self. This will never be accurate as there is no sensor in the cpu to read its temp. The sensor that this temp comes from is located in the motherboard. The only way to get a accurate read is to have a sensor in between the cpu and the heatsink. This is also know as Tjcase

Core temps are the temps of the physical cores in side the cpu. These are used for throttling only, people have started using them for temp readings as you can when the cpu is about to start to throttle. Each cpu has a max temp at which is start to throttle for my i7-920 its 100c this is Tjmax.

Core temps can be in accurate at colder temps as they are only see when the tjmax is going close to start throttling to save the cpu. You may see that each core temp might not read the same. It could be possible issue with thermal paste or how the cpu cooler is mounted. If after remounting the cooler temps still read the same then some chips have different Tjmax to help with throttling. So all 4 or more cores dont all shut down at once even if it is for micro seconds.

It is suggested that you keep core temps 20c from tjmax. Most cpus are around 100c for tjmax so we usally say to keep core temps at or under 80c. In theory the cpu should start to throttle from hitting Tjmax before hitting Tjcase unless your cpu cooler fell off and is just hanging there.

The other day I was hitting 88*c while running Prime95 and it seemed to be creeping up.
Right now I have multis set at 45 and everything on Auto except LLC and it's passing IBT. Will run Prime95 and start making the adjustments as needed.

Hmmm. Would it be better to set Vcore back to "Normal" (where it did not boot) and start increasing dvid until it's booting??

[Acebmxer]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

You have to correctly setup dvid to use it. There are 2 colums in the bios the one on the left is the default/normal voltages. Vid is your cpu's default voltage at default speeds. For my cpu is 1.25 so when vcore is set to normal 1.25v is applied. If auto uses 1.4v for your given over clock and your vid is 1.25 you would need to set dvid to +0.1500 to equal 1.4v. If you need 1.45v then you would use 1.25+0.2000=1.45v. You can also take away voltage with dvid say you only need 1.15v. That would be 1.25-0.1000=1.15v

Also if you not sure how to use the multi quote just click the ("+) sign next to each post you want to quote including the last one then at the last quote click the (replay with quote) and it will quote all that you have marked.

[wazza300]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

I would fit you d14 first,above 72c isn't advised for sb,highest id go personally is 80c no higher

Might need more dvid or a higher llc level,ideally around 1.36v total CPU voltage for 4.5ghz that's whatever normal uses plus dvid amount

[boondocks]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

You have to correctly setup dvid to use it. There are 2 colums in the bios the one on the left is the default/normal voltages. Vid is your cpu's default voltage at default speeds. For my cpu is 1.25 so when vcore is set to normal 1.25v is applied. If auto uses 1.4v for your given over clock and your vid is 1.25 you would need to set dvid to +0.1500 to equal 1.4v. If you need 1.45v then you would use 1.25+0.2000=1.45v. You can also take away voltage with dvid say you only need 1.15v. That would be 1.25-0.1000=1.15v

Also if you not sure how to use the multi quote just click the ("+) sign next to each post you want to quote including the last one then at the last quote click the (replay with quote) and it will quote all that you have marked.

OK, got it, I think. I did not realize the dvid worked that way! I will revisit this when I get better cooling.

I would fit you d14 first,above 72c isn't advised for sb,highest id go personally is 80c no higher

Might need more dvid or a higher llc level,ideally around 1.36v total CPU voltage for 4.5ghz that's whatever normal uses plus dvid amount

OK. Every time Prime95 starts the 8K tests, the temps start to cycle from 80-88. Next week when I get the Noctua installed I will get back into. Right now I'll leave the clocks at x45 I guess and not do any testing except I may play with the dvid and IBT instead of Prime95.

thanks to you guys for the help and I'll probably have more questions next week if I get stuck.

[wazza300]

Re: CPU cycling at idle and some other questions

ive read that gigabyte boards use more qpi/vtt than stock 1.05v,idk how true this is but if your freezing/bsod ect you can safely use upto 1.2v but no higher,dram can be upto 1.5750v you probably know this already but just making sure,and i wouldnt run above 80c,you dont wanna risk permanently damaging your cpu their not as robust as first gen i7