Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

[wheelscene]

Hi guys I have been chatting with LSD about my current issue but not sure if he is on holiday etc.

I have issues with my graphics being unstable during overl****s and want to try something "others" have found cured their problem.

Quote, "I moved my memory , 1140 mhz , to the other slots and changed my timings from tighter 5-5-5-12 timmings to 5-5-5- 15
and no more lock ups. In my case it apears it was never the 5870..at least it points to that"

My memory is spec'd in my sig and wondered what the first relaxed step would be is it 8-8-8-27-1, is that right? thanks

[Psycho101]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

That would be fine to try first. There's no real order you must loosen them in, just do it one timing at a time so that you know which one made the difference. You can then try tightening the other timings back up.

Another thing to check would be the Performance Enhance setting. Make sure this is on Standard, especially when over clocking. You can then try a step up when everything is stable.

if you think that RAM timings may help, there must also be some sort of instability somewhere in your system. It could just be that the GPU drivers are a bit buggy and need looser timings but this would be rare. It's more likely that your Over Clock is quite stable, but not 100% or not stable enough for prolonged 3D. This could be because of CPU, Uncore or RAM settings, voltages and timings.

I would strongly suggest an extended Prime95 run. Use the Blend test and let it run for a whole 24 hours (this is important when finding tiny instabilities). If there are no errors, move to Large FFT's in Prime and run that for 12 hours. Large FFT's mean that the test can't completely fit into the CPU's cache, so the system has to use RAM too.

The Large FFT test has found many an error for me with various systems. For instance this machine used to be unable to extract large RAR files, saying they were corrupt when they were perfectly fine. I decided to run a Large FFT test and the system failed after 9 hours. A single change of the MCH Reference voltage (P45 socket 775 board) corrected the WinRAR errors and Prime Large FFT's could then run the full 12 hours without an error.

The easiest and most convenient way to test would be to start Prime Blend before you go to bed, then let it run over night and through the following day while you're at work etc. if you're a couple of hours short of the 24 that's OK, but at least 20 hours will be enough to detect a subtle instability. If it's clean, like I say, move to Large FFT's to narrow down the cause even further. If Blend fails, write down the FFT size it fails on then stop it right away. it is not dangerous to leave it running when it has errored (sometimes only one core will error) but is just a waste of time.

Be sure to go into the [Advanced] menu and select [Round Off Checking] (a check mark should appear next to it if the option has been turned on.

All this sounds like it will take a long time, but if you test this way then inconvenience is minimised. If you just start loosening RAM timings you may find you're covering up the real cause of the instability. If you are getting BSOD's, crashes, freezes etc then 8 times out of 10 it is an unstable rig.

If it turns out that everything tests out fine, you can download and run an application called FurMark. This uses OpenGL to really tress the GPU, revealing any instability there. It's like Intel Burn Test for graphics cards, so be aware of GPU temperatures at all times. the program draws a graph showing minimum, maximum and average temps in real time while the test is running. If the temps get over 95c then I'd stop the program for safety sake. You also don't want to use the "Maximum Burn" setting, this is way too intense. the normal mode should be fine, set to 1280x1024 in a window or 1024x768 if you happen to have a monitor smaller than 1680x1050. Full screen is not needed and will hide any CPU temp monitoring program etc that you may have open (monitor CPU temp too as 3D uses the CPU to some extent in FurMark.

You can download Furmark from here: FurMark: Graphics Card Stability and Stress Test, OpenGL Benchmark and GPU Temperature | oZone3D.Net

And the latest Prime95 is available direct from the creator (version 25.9) here: Free Software - GIMPS

Like I say, do not use the Max Burn setting in FurMark. The other setting is perfectly fine, along with Post Processing and 4X Anti Aliasing to get the VRAM working nice and hard. If you use the Max Burn setting, potentially something like this may happen:

[wheelscene]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

Hi Psy'101

Thanks for a detailed response.....

I have got these settings currently applied. These were the last ones LSD asked me to try, is there anything needing tweaking?

If you think they are ok I'll try 24 hour prime blend, I know I have done 12- 18 before and kind of thought all is good if its ok that long. Will step up to 24 though now. Thanks.

If you fancy some history on this situ....

It's been a nightmare to be honest, in the sense that I can pass linx, 12- 18 hours prime also run furmark for an hour. Then play 2/3 hours of a game with not a wiff of instability. Then I could just click a link or come back to PC while it idled and find it filled with vertical lines blue/grey/back (varies).

I was convinved my GPU was dodgy and there is a lot of internet chatter about ATI 5870 with vertical lines crash, however new drivers came out 12th and a few people are cured I am not. Which brings me back to my OC. I work in a IT support role so know the signs of a bad graphics chip etc and this is just too wierd for me. Here is a big point aswell.........

I bought my UD5 & I7 preoverclocked as a bundle. I had loads of hassle getting the thing to stop cold booting and not wake from sleep etc. I found tweaktown and LSD sorted all that out in 5 seconds. But it's been since then that the grpahics became flakey and I need to add I had a nvidia 9800gtx before on this board and it was clocked to 4ghz and that was ok - but then I never tested the system really with it all being done as part of the purchase.

Also last night actually I tweaked my bios a bit then left furmark running again for an hour (usually it will cause the problem then) and it sailed through.I then skipped prime and went stright for linx on full mem 20 passes all ok. So I thought cool seems ok again. About an hour into colin mcrae dirt 2 the screen seemed to be choking, frames dropped to a crawl as if someone had hacked into my PC and started a 9gb rar file un zipping at the same time, then freeze and audio squeal till hard reset.


So problem being problem not easily replicated, occurs during intensive graphical things like games hardly ever. Can be recreated by Furmark but then still be unstable if it appears its ok with furmark. Hope thats clear.

Advanced CPU Features:
CPU Clock Ratio .............................. [20x]
CPU Frequency................................. [4.00Ghz (200x200]

ADVANCED CPU FEATURES
Intel(R) Turbo Boost Tech .................... [ENABLED]
CPU Cores Enabled ............................ [All]
CPU Multi Threading .......................... [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) ...................... [DISABLED]
C3/C6/C7 State Support ....................... [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor .......................... [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function ............................ [DISABLED]
Virtualization Technology .................... [Enabled]
Bi-Directional PROCHOT ....................... [Enabled]


Uncore & QPI Features
QPI Clock Ratio............................... [x36]
QPI Link Speed................................ [7.2Ghz]
Uncore Clock Ratio............................ [x18]
Uncore Frequency ............................. [3600Mhz]
Isonchronous Frequency ....................... [ENABLED]


Standard Clock Control
Base Clock (BCLK) Control .................... [Enabled]
BCLK Frequency (MHz) ......................... [200]
PCI Express Frequency (MHz) .................. [100]
C.I.A.2....................................... [Disabled]

Advanced Clock Control:
CPU Clock Drive .............................. [800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ...................... [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew ............................... [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew ............................... [0ps]


Advanced DRAM Features:
Performance Enhance .......................... [Turbo]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) ............... [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) ............... [8.0]
DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) ................. [Expert]

Channel A + B + C
Channel A Timing Settings:

##Channel A Standard Timing Control##
CAS Latency Time ............................. [8]
tRCD ......................................... [8]
tRP .......................................... [8]
tRAS ......................................... [24]
CMD........................................... [1]





##Channel A Advanced Timing Control##
tRC .......................................... [Auto]
tRRD ......................................... [Auto]
tWTR ......................................... [Auto]
tWR .......................................... [Auto]
tWTP ......................................... [Auto]
tWL .......................................... [Auto]
tRFC ......................................... [Auto]
tRTP ......................................... [Auto]
tFAW ......................................... [Auto]
Command Rate (CMD) ........................... [1]

##Channel A Misc Timing Control##
Round Trip Latency ........................... [Auto]




Advanced Voltage Control:

CPU
Load Line Calibration ........................ [Enabled]
CPU Vcore .................................... [1.38750v]
QPI/VTT Voltage 1.150v ....................... [1.375V]
CPU PLL 1.800v ............................... [1.840V]


MCH/ICH
PCIE 1.500v .................................. [1.540V]
QPI PLL 1.100v ............................... [1.240V]
IOH Core 1.100v .............................. [1.240V]
ICH I/O 1.500v ............................... [1.580V]
ICH Core 1.1v ................................ [1.16V]


DRAM
DRAM Voltage 1.500v .......................... [1.660]
DRAM Termination 0.750v....................... [AUTO]
Ch-A Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-B Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-C Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-A Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]
Ch-B Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]
Ch-C Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]

[wazza300]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

Hi Psy'101

Thanks for a detailed response.....

I have got these settings currently applied. These were the last ones LSD asked me to try, is there anything needing tweaking?

If you think they are ok I'll try 24 hour prime blend, I know I have done 12- 18 before and kind of thought all is good if its ok that long. Will step up to 24 though now. Thanks.

If you fancy some history on this situ....

It's been a nightmare to be honest, in the sense that I can pass linx, 12- 18 hours prime also run furmark for an hour. Then play 2/3 hours of a game with not a wiff of instability. Then I could just click a link or come back to PC while it idled and find it filled with vertical lines blue/grey/back (varies).

I was convinved my GPU was dodgy and there is a lot of internet chatter about ATI 5870 with vertical lines crash, however new drivers came out 12th and a few people are cured I am not. Which brings me back to my OC. I work in a IT support role so know the signs of a bad graphics chip etc and this is just too wierd for me. Here is a big point aswell.........

I bought my UD5 & I7 preoverclocked as a bundle. I had loads of hassle getting the thing to stop cold booting and not wake from sleep etc. I found tweaktown and LSD sorted all that out in 5 seconds. But it's been since then that the grpahics became flakey and I need to add I had a nvidia 9800gtx before on this board and it was clocked to 4ghz and that was ok - but then I never tested the system really with it all being done as part of the purchase.

Also last night actually I tweaked my bios a bit then left furmark running again for an hour (usually it will cause the problem then) and it sailed through.I then skipped prime and went stright for linx on full mem 20 passes all ok. So I thought cool seems ok again. About an hour into colin mcrae dirt 2 the screen seemed to be choking, frames dropped to a crawl as if someone had hacked into my PC and started a 9gb rar file un zipping at the same time, then freeze and audio squeal till hard reset.


So problem being problem not easily replicated, occurs during intensive graphical things like games hardly ever. Can be recreated by Furmark but then still be unstable if it appears its ok with furmark. Hope thats clear.

Advanced CPU Features:
CPU Clock Ratio .............................. [20x]
CPU Frequency................................. [4.00Ghz (200x200]

ADVANCED CPU FEATURES
Intel(R) Turbo Boost Tech .................... [ENABLED]
CPU Cores Enabled ............................ [All]
CPU Multi Threading .......................... [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) ...................... [DISABLED]
C3/C6/C7 State Support ....................... [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor .......................... [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function ............................ [DISABLED]
Virtualization Technology .................... [Enabled]
Bi-Directional PROCHOT ....................... [Enabled]


Uncore & QPI Features
QPI Clock Ratio............................... [x36]
QPI Link Speed................................ [7.2Ghz]
Uncore Clock Ratio............................ [x18]
Uncore Frequency ............................. [3600Mhz]
Isonchronous Frequency ....................... [ENABLED]


Standard Clock Control
Base Clock (BCLK) Control .................... [Enabled]
BCLK Frequency (MHz) ......................... [200]
PCI Express Frequency (MHz) .................. [100]
C.I.A.2....................................... [Disabled]

Advanced Clock Control:
CPU Clock Drive .............................. [800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ...................... [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew ............................... [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew ............................... [0ps]


Advanced DRAM Features:
Performance Enhance .......................... [Turbo]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) ............... [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) ............... [8.0]
DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) ................. [Expert]

Channel A + B + C
Channel A Timing Settings:

##Channel A Standard Timing Control##
CAS Latency Time ............................. [8]
tRCD ......................................... [8]
tRP .......................................... [8]
tRAS ......................................... [24]
CMD........................................... [1]





##Channel A Advanced Timing Control##
tRC .......................................... [Auto]
tRRD ......................................... [Auto]
tWTR ......................................... [Auto]
tWR .......................................... [Auto]
tWTP ......................................... [Auto]
tWL .......................................... [Auto]
tRFC ......................................... [Auto]
tRTP ......................................... [Auto]
tFAW ......................................... [Auto]
Command Rate (CMD) ........................... [1]

##Channel A Misc Timing Control##
Round Trip Latency ........................... [Auto]




Advanced Voltage Control:

CPU
Load Line Calibration ........................ [Enabled]
CPU Vcore .................................... [1.38750v]
QPI/VTT Voltage 1.150v ....................... [1.375V]
CPU PLL 1.800v ............................... [1.840V]


MCH/ICH
PCIE 1.500v .................................. [1.540V]
QPI PLL 1.100v ............................... [1.240V]
IOH Core 1.100v .............................. [1.240V]
ICH I/O 1.500v ............................... [1.580V]
ICH Core 1.1v ................................ [1.16V]


DRAM
DRAM Voltage 1.500v .......................... [1.660]
DRAM Termination 0.750v....................... [AUTO]
Ch-A Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-B Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-C Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-A Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]
Ch-B Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]
Ch-C Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]

setting system performance enhance to standard might help and loosen ram timings to 8-8-8-26 esp @4.2ghz

[wheelscene]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

Thanks wazza thats just what I was hoping. To be honest @ 4.2 stress tests get a bit too hot for my liking 80+ etc might even try under 4 like your settings 3.8 so can turn down the juice etc. should I get 3.8 from multiplier or blck?

[wazza300]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

yeah just follow my settings in my sig and set bclk to 180,system perf enhance to standard,enable c1e and eist at 3.8ghz
cpu voltage normal setting/qpi 1.3000

[wheelscene]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

Thanks man! Just done some tweaks and testing with prime like mad as per psy101. Will deffo try these if I still got issues. Thanks.
Should I leave these volts or drop them do you think

CPU
Load Line Calibration ........................ [Enabled]
CPU Vcore .................................... [1.38750v]
QPI/VTT Voltage 1.150v ....................... [1.375V]
CPU PLL 1.800v ............................... [1.840V]


MCH/ICH
PCIE 1.500v .................................. [1.540V]
QPI PLL 1.100v ............................... [1.240V]
IOH Core 1.100v .............................. [1.240V]
ICH I/O 1.500v ............................... [1.580V]
ICH Core 1.1v ................................ [1.16V]


DRAM
DRAM Voltage 1.500v .......................... [1.660]
DRAM Termination 0.750v....................... [AUTO]
Ch-A Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-B Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-C Data VRef. 0.750v........................ [AUTO]
Ch-A Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]
Ch-B Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]
Ch-C Address VRef. 0.750v..................... [AUTO]

[wheelscene]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

"The Large FFT test has found many an error for me with various systems. For instance this machine used to be unable to extract large RAR files, saying they were corrupt when they were perfectly fine. I decided to run a Large FFT test and the system failed after 9 hours. A single change of the MCH Reference voltage (P45 socket 775 board) corrected the WinRAR errors and Prime Large FFT's could then run the full 12 hours without an error"

For Psy101
Just thinking about this, would it be a good idea to got straight for the 12 hour LFFT's as like you have found, 24 on blend didnt pick up on that tiny thing. Or am I barking up the wrong tree. Still learning you see so always full of questions!
Also aswell when you read different sites you get lots of conflicting information for example some people say linx is better than prime, so say 8 hours prime is stable, others say 24 and it goes on (and on and on). I even saw one person saying furmark is no good for testing GPU as it will just crash it eventually and it best just to loop a game or a benchmark etc?
I'd just like to point out that since I registered on this website I have got further and made more progress with my current rig (learning to OC myself) than any other and dont doubt any information given to me just interest in what experinced people make of all that.

So far for testing my route to full stability would be as follows
1.) Prime95 blend 24 hr
2.) " " SmallFFT 12 hr
3.) " " LargeFFT 12hr
4.) Linx full mem 20-50 passes
5.) Furmark 1 hour for GPU stability
6.) HCI memory test in windows or memtest

Also when prime95 fails how do you know what to change in the bios?

[wheelscene]

Re: Relaxing Memory Timings Issue

Testing update. I have tweaked the uncore back to 16, dropped turbo to standard and relaxed memory timings to 8-8-8-26-1.

So far so good....
1.) 12 hours LFFT - passed!
2.) 25 Linx Full memory passes - passed!
3.) 1 hour of Furmark - passed!
4.) 2 1/2 hours of gaming - no problems........
##EDIT##
5.) 24 Hours Blend - passed!


Now left it doing 24 hours blend.......9.30 hours in and all looking good. Temps running low as left window open in -8 degrees uk weather LOL (65 hottest core).
After that i will do 12 hours Small TFT prime and if it passes that can I say my overclock is now stabilised?????
(Any should I get any more screen crashes it has to be down to the graphics chip in some way ?)