New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

[doug-d1]

Greetings!
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I just purchased a GA-EP45-UD3 rev 1.6 motherboard bundled with a Q9550 CPU.
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From poking around this forum I get the impression that the GA-EP45-UD3 is a bit finicky about what memory it works well, or at all, with, and much more so if overclocking is involved.
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Specifically I want to go with 4GB (2 - 2GB sticks) of DDR 1066 with CAS timings of 5/5/5/15. The reasons are 4GB is almost certainly more than enough for anything I will probably need to do. 1066 because, as I understand it, the price premium for 1066 over 800 is almost nil and 1066 will give me a bit more head room for overclocking. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong regarding the head room for overclocking. 5/5/5/15 because this seems to be about the fastest CAS timing available and should make the system a bit faster. Again, someone please correct me if I am wrong about this.
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memory support list for 2GB DDR 1066, although the selection for DDR 800 is little better. I have never heard of several of the listed suppliers (which does not, within and of itself mean much.) Very few of the listings were for 2GB sticks and I had very little luck matching up any of the listed numbers with anything that is actually on the market. Now, admittedly, I did most of my searching on Newegg but in some cases I listed a module P/N or component P/N directly into bing and still nothing came up. I know there are other vendors besides Newegg, I just know them best, but still, with the bing searches nothing came up either. Note: I did not check any of the listed 1GB part numbers, which are most of the listings, because 1GB sticks are just not what I am interested in.
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Here then are my memory related questions:
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Really, just how finicky is the GA-EP45-UD3 about the memory it will run well with?
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Is there some trick to finding the memory on the Gigabyte memory support list?
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Oh, another memory related question, I know that if I go with two sticks they should go in the even, or the odd, memory slots, but which? It is kind of my understanding that most motherboards, if not all slots are populated, work best with either the evens, or the odds, but which varies with the MB manufacturer. Does it make a difference with this motherboard?
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My other questions, for today, involve RAID.
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I want to do a RAID with this build, possibly a RAID 5 but most likely a RAID 0, and I have never done a RAID before.
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This motherboard has two HD controllers: an Intel controller in the ICH10R south bride, capable of controlling up to 6 disks in RAID 0, 1, 5, or 10 and a Gigabyte controller capable of controlling up to 2 disks in RAID 0, 1, or JBOD.
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Now I understand that if I decide to go with RAID 5 I must use the Intel controller, but if I go with RAID 0 I have a choice. Therefore if I go with RAID 0 which controller should I use? Is one of the controllers faster or better in some way, than the other?
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Also, if I use the Intel controller with, say, a RAID 5 with three disks, can I use the other Intel SATA connectors for anything? In other words could I have, for example. a 3 disk RAID 5 configured with the Intel controller but also plug my SATA DVDRW and my external SATA connector into this same controller, or would the SATA DVDRW and the external SATA connector have to go to the Gigabyte controller? Is the Intel controller doing all it can do when it is running a RAID?
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I may have some other questions about just setting a RAID array up at all, especially with Windows XP, as the motherboard manual was not as clear as I would like but I would like to try to dope them out a bit more myself first before I bother the board further. For now if I can get some help on the above points it would really help out.
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Thanks,
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Doug D.

[CoolMaster]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

read my sig for memory and always go with the intel bridge for RAID,,,have fun

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

They can be picky, but not nearly as much as you might have heard. The QVL is dated, only showing sticks they had on hand for testing that time back when they released the board.

Do you have a brand preference, or a gew kits you were looking at? If so I could tell you which would be ok, most generally any would be ok really, but there is a few that have issues.

Most quality 800Mhz (444-12) ram will do 1066 at 555-15 anyway, and often 800Mhz at 444-12 can beat 1066 at looser timings as well. So don't go out of your way for 1066Mhz because even if it is better it would only be seen in benchmarks and not actually felt within the system so much.

You want to use slots 1+3, but yes it would work in 2+4 as well

Intel controller (Yellow) would be the best and fastest, no matter what array type you choose. Always start your disks in the first port (SATA_0) and continue in order as and put your CD/DVD drive in the last port (SATA2_5) or on the other controller if you run out of room.

Yes, you can have other items on the Intel controller along with RAID as mentioned above for your CD/DVD player. You can also add additional hard drives if you like, they will just be NON Member RAID and will run as AHCI disks. Just be sure you do not select these drives when creating your array and they will be left alone.

XP RAID. You will need to either F6 floppy install the RAID drivers, or slipstream them yourself manually or with Nlite. Here is the drivers you want, Floppy Pre-Intstall per your OS Choice x86 First link / x64 third link

http://downloadcenter.intel.com/SearchResult.aspx?lang=eng&ProductFamily=Chipsets&ProductLine=Chipset+Software&ProductProduct=Intel%c2%ae+Matrix+Storage+Manager

[doug-d1]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

Thank you very much for your response.
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Sorry to take so long to answer back. It is not because of lack of interest on my part I assure you. I just had to return to work today and so my time and computer access is very limited for a few days.
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Do you have a brand preference, or a few kits you were looking at?<o:p></o:p>

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<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Kingston</st1:place></st1:City> are the names I am most familiar with but I know Patriot and Mushkin have been around for a while too. G.SKILL is a newer name, to me, but it seems to have its fans. Really I am mostly just interested in quality memory that is known to work well with my board.<o:p></o:p>
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Here is a link comparing the three if you would like to see it. I hope he is not talking about the 1.8v memory as it seems to have received fairly poor user ratings and while there are only a few ratings, they must still count for something.<o:p></o:p>
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Most quality 800Mhz (444-12) ram will do 1066 at 555-15 anyway, and often 800Mhz at 444-12 can beat 1066 at looser timings as well. So don't go out of your way for 1066Mhz because even if it is better it would only be seen in benchmarks and not actually felt within the system so much. <o:p></o:p>

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Are you suggesting that I might be better off with 800 MHz 4-4-4-12 memory than 1066 MHz 5-5-5-15 memory, or are you saying that I could do just as well, or nearly as well, with 800 MHz 4-4-4-12 and so not to worry about 1066 MHz 5-5-5-15 if price, or availability, is an issue?<o:p></o:p>
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Based in my totally unscientific sample sets of 14 DDR2 1066 5-5-5-15 and 14 DDR2 800 4-4-4-12 memory kits I find the price differences to be negligible. In both categories the cheapest is about $80 and the most expensive is about $130. In fact it appears, to me, that the 1066 is actually, on average, a bit cheaper. Below are links to my two data sets if you would like to see them<o:p></o:p>
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DDR2 1066 5-5-5-15<o:p></o:p>
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DDR2 800 4-4-4-14<o:p></o:p>
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Really, the only preference I have is where I buy, and where ever possible I like to buy from Newegg. I have been really happy with Newegg, and all other things being equal I would just as soon buy from them. The links above are both from Newegg and while I know they are fairly large lists, it would be really nice if any memory recommendations could come from those lists.<o:p></o:p>
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XP RAID. You will need to either F6 floppy install the RAID drivers, or slipstream them yourself manually or with Nlite. Here is the drivers you want, Floppy Pre-Intstall per your OS Choice x86 First link / x64 third link
http://downloadcenter.intel.com/Sear...torage+Manager <o:p></o:p>

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[Lsdmeasap]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

I would stick with the 2.0-2.1 kits if you choose one of those G.Skills, and actually I would say the PI ones would be better than the blue ones.

Lower voltage kits are normally cheaper kits meant for OEM machines or simple email/browsing systems. But with memory tech changing now this does not apply so much as there is several kits that can do high speeds with low voltages such as the tridents you linked above.

I would stick with 2.0-2.2 kits, the ones that require more are often lesser quality as they are rated to 2.4 for example so that if need be you may use up to 2.4 to reach the stock speed of the chips.

I was saying both of those things about 800 vs 1066

Newegg rocks, but be sure if you ebay that you check there as well because you can get 8% Cashback on Buy it now items

From your 1066 list I would suggest these
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 &#40;PC2 8500&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996599 - Desktop Memory
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Blackline Ascent Heatsink 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 &#40;PC2 8500&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996619 - Desktop Memory
Newegg.com - G.SKILL 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 &#40;PC2 8500&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPI-B - Desktop Memory

From your 800 List I would suggest these
Newegg.com - G.SKILL PI Black 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 &#40;PC2 6400&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-6400CL4D-4GBPI-B - Desktop Memory
Newegg.com - Crucial Ballistix 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 &#40;PC2 6400&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT25664AA80A - Desktop Memory
Newegg.com - Crucial Ballistix Tracer 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 &#40;PC2 6400&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model BL2KIT25664AR80A - Desktop Memory
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 &#40;PC2 6400&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996580 - Desktop Memory
Newegg.com - Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 &#40;PC2 6400&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model 996622 - Desktop Memory

The Crucial and Mushkins I know 100% will give you minimal issues on these boards as I use them myself. The 996580's are one example of a 800 kit that will easily do 1066 with 555 timings. And the crucial kits are actually already programmed with a 1000Mhz profile as well, you can see my review of the 800Mhz Crucial kit in my signature.


Yes, use all the latest drivers from Intel, and RealTek as well. I never use any drivers from the Gigabyte site as they are usually behind. You mean the drive at intel, and the similarly dated Program right? There is only the pre-install driver (32 or 64) and the Matirx program, so hopefully that is what you meant, if so yes get both from there.

[doug-d1]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

First off, thanks again for all the detailed information. It really helps.
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One thing I was a bit surprised by is that neither Corsair nor <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Kingston</st1:place></st1:City> made it into your list of suggestions. These are the names I have most associated with quality memory. Now, it almost makes me wonder if they just have better PR departments. Well, that is not important now. What is important, to me anyway, is I can feel pretty comfortable with, Mushkin, Crucial or G.SKILL memory for my Gigabyte, P45 based build.
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Are you suggesting that I might be better off with 800 MHz 4-4-4-12 memory than 1066 MHz 5-5-5-15 memory, or are you saying that I could do just as well, or nearly as well, with 800 MHz 4-4-4-12 and so not to worry about 1066 MHz 5-5-5-15 if price, or availability, is an issue?<o:p></o:p>
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I was saying both of those things about 800 vs. 1066<o:p></o:p>

Ok, this is a very difficult concept for me and I am having a terrible time trying to wrap my head around it.<o:p></o:p>
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You see my problem here? <o:p></o:p>
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Am I making any sense here?<o:p></o:p>
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(Small problem with making this post. It was a lot longer than what you see here but when I tried to submit it it was rejected with an error statement which claimed that it was over the 10000 character limit, 11459 to be exact. Interestingly, Microsoft Word showed the character count at around 6600. I have no idea why the forum counter is seeing so many more characters that do not appear to be there but my solution is to chop this post in two and the rest follows in the next post.)<o:p></o:p>

[doug-d1]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

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Now, on to your suggestions from my lists of 1066 and 800 memory.<o:p></o:p>
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I took your suggested memory kits and made up a couple of new comparison lists so that I could more easily see the differences. The links are below.<o:p></o:p>
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Suggestions for DDR2 1066<o:p></o:p>
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Suggeations for DDR2 800<o:p></o:p>
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What I discovered is there does not seem to be much difference, at least with reference to the information Newegg provides.<o:p></o:p>
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Newegg rocks, but be sure if you ebay that you check there as well because you can get 8% Cashback on Buy it now items

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I do ebay from time to time, but usually only for things I cannot buy in normal retail channels, such as out of print, or otherwise out of production items. There are several reasons for this, one of which is I usually seem to be able to find current production items, cheaper, other places than ebay. I spot checked a couple of the memory kits on ebay and this seemed to be the case, but there is another item for which I might turn to ebay.<o:p></o:p>
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My issues:<o:p></o:p>
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My main issue:<o:p></o:p>
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I have been told, and even by a couple of manufacturers, that warranties usually will not be honored on items purchased through ebay, and for several reasons, not the least of which is many ebay vendors are not recognized as such by manufacturers and receipts, if any, given by ebay vendors are usually not acceptable to manufacturers.<o:p></o:p>
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Now, mind you, this information is at least a couple of years old and since you mentioned ebay I am assuming that you buy there so I was wondering if you had any more current knowledge of any of this, especially any warranty issues, because if this is not a problem I really would like to get those HDs ordered. <o:p></o:p>
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You mean the drive at intel, and the similarly dated Program right? There is only the pre-install driver (32 or 64) and the Matirx program, so hopefully that is what you meant, if so yes get both from there.<o:p></o:p>

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Well I believe we are talking about the same thing, but just to be sure:<o:p></o:p>
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<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:date Month="7" Day="17" Year="2009">7/17/09</st1:date> These, I think, are the two items I will need. Plus, of course, the chip set driver, as well as, from RealTek, the sound and network drivers.<o:p></o:p>
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Thanks, also, for this tip. I would not have known to look at these manufacturer web sites for more current drivers, but it seems like a really good idea.<o:p></o:p>

[Psycho101]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

DDR-800 can out pace 1066 easily if timings are tight enough on the DDR800. Over all speed isn't just based on the clock speed of the RAM but also the timings the RAM is running at. It's both these factors in combination that determine the performance. Setting up DDR-800 at 4-4-4-12 can definitely be faster than 1066 at 5-5-5-15/18. The slower clock frequency also allows the secondary timings like tRFC to be set lower too and may also mean that Static tRead can be lowered too. tRead makes a huge difference, up to 250MB/s of bandwidth per increment lowered.

Think of it this way: Two piles of 100 bricks are on a building site and need moving to where the brick layers are. One person takes their pile and moves them one at a time, jogging at 6 miles per hour. The second person moves their pile by taking two bricks at once and walking at three miles per hour. Who gets the job done first?

The most important thing to remember is that in real world scenarios, the difference between DDR800 and DDR1066 is pretty insignificant. Core 2 architecture is designed chiefly to minimise access to RAM and to be a good performer independant of RAM speeds. This shows in real world aplications where RAM speed (after a certain point) becomes academic. You will see differences in RAM bnchmarks with the two speeds but IRL that extra bandwidth could translate to maybe 2 FPS more at the most or maybe 1-2 minutes off a 6 hour encoding job.

Personally I recommend at least DDR-800 RAM at the tightest timings possible. iIt is worth getting over DDR 533 and DDR 667. DDR 800 and 1066 are both considered high performance RAM. The official Intel sanctioned support ends at DDR-667 on socket 775, just as i7's support a max officially of 1066 for the 9xx series and 1333 for the 8xx series. If the person is OCing then depending on their target CPU speed I'll get them some DDR800 4-4-4-12 that can OC to 1066 @ 5-5-5-15. If it's the cheaper option or I can't get DDR800 that I know 100% will OC as needed I'll use DDR-1066.

The benefit of grabbing some nice DDR-800 is that you can then decide if that speed at low timings or looser timings at 1066 works best. It's more likely in my experience with RAM I've used that the DDR800 will overclock with looser timings rather than trying to get 1066 to run at 800 and 4-4-4-12.

As far as specific brands I almost exclusively used GSkill PK series with both the 1.1 and 1.6 version UD3P. This is because I know they will work with the board and will OC to DDR1100 if needed: Newegg.com - G.SKILL 4GB &#40;2 x 2GB&#41; 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 &#40;PC2 8500&#41; Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK - Desktop Memory this is because in the UK they're significantly cheaper than the Pi series. Pi are good to so if the price is similar they are a good option.

I'm no longer using DDR2 RAM as it's an EOL product. I can't justify locking a customer into old tech that will be soon in short supply and is getting more and more expensive. It's easy now to buy good quality DDR3 1600 @ 7-7-7-24 for the same price or cheaper than DDR2. It's a shame you couldn't get an EP45T instead as this means you'll have an easy time adding extra RAM if you desire and you'll also be able to take the RAM with you to your next PC.

[doug-d1]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

Thanks for the response
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DDR-800 can out pace 1066 easily if timings are tight enough on the DDR800. Over all speed isn't just based on the clock speed of the RAM but also the timings the RAM is running at. It's both these factors in combination that determine the performance.

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You guys keep talking about loose, and tight, timings. Are these CAS timings? And what does loose, or tight, timings mean?
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I'm no longer using DDR2 RAM as it's an EOL product. I can't justify locking a customer into old tech that will be soon in short supply and is getting more and more expensive. It's easy now to buy good quality DDR3 1600 @ 7-7-7-24 for the same price or cheaper than DDR2. It's a shame you couldn't get an EP45T instead as this means you'll have an easy time adding extra RAM if you desire and you'll also be able to take the RAM with you to your next PC.

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When it comes to planning ahead to the next computer with the parts you are buying today, well I imagine some of you guys are doing new computers every six months, plus or minus, and then, perhaps, that idea makes sense, but for me, realistically, this computer which will be exponentially more powerful than anything I have now, will meet my needs for at least several years, and by then any memory I buy now, DDR3 or not, will be very unlikely to be what I would want by then.
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[mv2devnull]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

I'd say that you do know the important bits. The rest are mere implementation details.

[Chike]

Re: New GA-EP45-UD3. Memory and RAID questions to get started.

You guys keep talking about loose, and tight, timings. Are these CAS timings? And what does loose, or tight, timings mean?

Mostly CAS yes but not only e.g. changing tRAS from 12 to 10 at my current OC results in 100MB/s increase in read benchmark. I'm not an extremist so I leave it on 12, I preffer stability over 1% increase that won't make no difference for me anyway.

Tighter = lower value. Although the timings are related to memory frequency, meaning 5-5-5-15 for DDR-1066 are not "looser" than 4-4-4-12 for DDR-800 (in fact they are "tighter")

If you plan to overclock I'd say get DDR-1066 otherwise a low latency DDR-800 will do just fine. There is only a small difference in favore of DDR-1066