GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

[nimdok]

I've been having off and on issues with memory problems ever since I built my computer last year. Despite switching in different ram or changing timings around, the memory problems would disappear (or I'd just not notice them) for anywhere between months to hours before cropping up again. Memtest would turn up completely clean, but after running in Windows for how ever long they'd appear again, and booting into Memtest again would pop up a bunch of errors. Since this happens with different RAM sticks, and I've even RMA'd one, I'm almost positive it isn't a problem with the RAM itself. Instead, I'm assuming it's a problem with either my BIOS settings, ram timings, the motherboard itself, or the CPU.

Any help would be appreciated, this computer with Alzheimers is completely frustrating me.

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale @ 3.00GHz

Motherboard: GA-EP45-DS3L

BIOS Version: F10

RAM: 2x 2GB Crucial Ballistix 240-pin DIMM, DDR2 PC2-6400 (Specs:

MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio ..........................: 9x
Fine CPU Clock Ratio.....................:.0
CPU Frequency ...........................: 3.00GHz (333x9)


Clock Chip Control 
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control..................: [Enabled] 
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ............: 333 Mhz
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .........:100
C.I.A.2 .................................:[Disabled]


Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive...........................: <<< 800
PCI Express Clock Drive.................: <<< 900
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: <<< 0ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)...................: <<< 0ps


DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Disabled
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: [Auto]
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.40B
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Manual]

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time........................ 4
tRCD ......................................... 4
tRP'........................................... 4
tRAS.......................................... 12

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...........................................3
tWTR..........................................3
tWR............................................6
tRFC...........................................52
tRTP...........................................3
Command Rate (CMD) ....................:2

Driving Strength Profiles
Driving Strength ............................[Auto]

Channel A
Static tRead Value.........................:7
 tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................:Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment...................:Auto
 tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................:Auto
 tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................:Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:Auto 
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:Auto 
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................:Auto 
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:Auto 
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto  ps
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto  ps

Channel B
Static tRead Value.........................:7
 tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................:Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment...................:Auto
 tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................:Auto
 tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................:Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:Auto 
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:Auto 
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................:Auto 
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:Auto 
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto  ps
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto  ps

Motherboard Voltage Control

CPU
CPU Vcore�.���....1.25000V............:Auto
CPU Termination�..... 1.200V.................: Auto
CPU PLL�����.....1.550V.................: Auto
CPU Referen.����....0.805V.............: <<<auto>

MCH/ICH
MCH Core�����.....1.100V...........: <<1.200V
MCH Reference�.��.0.760V...........; <<< 0.800V
ICH I/O������.....1.550V............: <<< 1.550V

DRAM
DRAM Voltage ��....1.800V............: 2.000V

Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]

Integrated Peripherals
Legacy USB Storage Detect ..............[Disabled]

</auto>

[Chike]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

It looks like your CPU temps are quite high for prime95 at stock speed I wonder if it's something with your case teperature, and if the NorthBridge doesn't over heat.
Check that the NB heatsink is not moved and seated peoperly. It should feel warm or even hot to touch, if it's not there may be a problem.
The ram shouldn't be hot that you can't tough it for long, if it is that may be a problem too.
Could be that the ram is also heating if the case is not well ventilated.
Try open case with room fan blowing on it and see if there's any difference (at least with CPU temps)

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

You may need 1.24 MCH, and you may also need 2.02-2.04V to the ram as your board may be drooping on the voltages a little bit.

Of course the ram itself may be starting to have faults too, not sure and I can see from your comments this is hard to tell if this is the case or not.

I do know for sure this ram works fine in Gigabyte P45 boards though as I reviewed it a while ago, link in my signature if you are interested

[nimdok]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Alright, the northbridge is definitely hot to the touch, as is the heatsink of the RAM. I wouldn't say that the RAM is so hot that I can't touch it for long though - it's definitely just hot but not too hot (as far as I can tell, but its certainly more hot than warm). Edit: Also, checking again, the third slot is a lot more hot than the first slot which is merely warm to the touch.

With the case off and Prime95 running (but no external fan blowing on it), the High temps according to CoreTemp are 57C, so that is definitely an improvement.

I also made the changes that Lsdmeasap recommended, and am currently stresstesting a 1.24MCH and 2.02 voltage in Prime95. I'll let you guys know if it errors out on me, but traditionally it takes awhile for it to do so.

Thanks again for the help, and as a reference, since it might help, here is a picture of my case.

[Chike]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

With the case off and Prime95 running (but no external fan blowing on it), the High temps according to CoreTemp are 57C, so that is definitely an improvement.

This means the case temperature was about 10c above room temperature.
Those 2 fans are both exhust I am guessing, have any intakes in front?

EDIT: what room temperature you have?

[nimdok]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Yeah, the case is a Antec P182. There's no front intake at the moment, but I could remove the middle drive bay and buy an intake fan to put there.

My current room temperature is about 71 to 72F (22C) I'd estimate. Although this fluctuates a bit since I don't have air conditioning. But problems have definitely popped up at this temperature.

[Chike]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Not that bad then, my normal room temp is 30-32c(86-90F) during summer, but the exhust air is only 2c above room temp.

[Psycho101]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

It's pretty critical you fit an intake ASAP. You can't rely on negative pressure alone to force fresh air into the system.

You'd see an improvement no doubt if you used the current top extraction fan as an intake. Then when you get another fan, you can replace it. A 7c drop in temps when you take the side off is definitely an indication of poor air flow. With my current setup, temps actually go DOWN with the sides on and everything sealed. That's the effect (or near) you get with optimal airflow.

It looks as though for an intake to work, you'll have to have the case dooe open when the machine is on. Unless I'm missing something from the Newegg photo's the whole front door seems to be solit, with no vent holes. If you're into modding you could always cut one with a Dremmel, then add a mesh screen. Curling the edges of the mesh and mounting it to a plastic frame will cover up any untidy cutting edges if you stick it on the outside of the door.

If you have the option to fit a side intake in line with the CPU, as it's a top down cooler, a fan and duct would give the HSF fresh cool air directly from the outside. An intake on the front would then be less of an issue, although your GPU may be getting toasty.

On a side note, with no intake, the case temp is likely to be much more that 32c. I'd say anywhere between 34c and 40c in the top compartment. My case is extremely well vented and it touches 30c at that kind of ambient.

[nimdok]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Nah, there's vent holes all along both sides that the front door is hinged on. Until I get a new fan, I'll take your advice and change the top fan to be an intake and see how much difference that makes in temperature. Most reviews claim the case has pretty good airflow, so perhaps I just need to make these adjustments to get a much cooler system.

[Psycho101]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Vent holes along the sides aren't the same as having an open vent on the front of the case. Even with these vents, the efficiency of the fan will be hindered compared to either having the door open or having a proper grill in it. Even so, the addition of an intake is still important.

Hopefully the strange design won't impact things too much. The difference between zero forced intake and having a full speed fan pulling air in should be noticeable. If there is no ducting or obstructions, the cool air may not reach the CPU though. If ambient temps drop in the case though, it should make at least a couple of degrees difference.

For a good indication of how intake pressure helps your temps, monitor your GPU temperatures. As the fan will be directly opposite, the GPU should be noticeably cooler.

[nimdok]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Well, it still crashed with the case off while running Prime95, so it doesn't seem to be entirely an overheating problem. I've also tried lsdmeasap's ram timings which doesn't seem to have solved it either.

What should be my next step in troubleshooting this?

[Chike]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Try running memtest86+ with one stick only stick at all slots seperetly, different stick if one fail.
It could be the heat is not the problem though it's good to keep it low as possible.
How long did it take to prime95 to fail and waht test did it fail?

I installed a side intake fan in the side hole which is blowing right on the NB, that seem to bring the system temp (whatever it is) 2c down.

[artureal]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

I would also check the simplest thing - if CPU heatsink is seated properly, including thermal grease.
The 67C temperature is much too high for E8400 being stressed at default speed, even with stock cooling.
I have similar motherboard and the same CPU and have reached such temps after overclocking to over 4GHz at 1,46V Vcore.

[Psycho101]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

I would also check the simplest thing - if CPU heatsink is seated properly, including thermal grease.
The 67C temperature is much too high for E8400 being stressed at default speed, even with stock cooling.
I have similar motherboard and the same CPU and have reached such temps after overclocking to over 4GHz at 1,46V Vcore.

You may have reached similar temps at 4GHz, but not on the stock cooler. A stock Intel dual core cooler is..... well.. they're crap, basically. A 1" thick by 4-4.5" diameter lump of aluminium doesn't cool all that well even at the best of times.

Sure, checking the seating of the HSF is a good idea, but let's not assume that the particular CPU in question has "accurate" DTS sensors. They can be as much as 10c out by Intel's own admission. In a best case scenario, this would put the actual core temps with the case closed at 57c. This is only on the hottest core. You'll also notice that the second core is (maybe) 2c cooler. 55-57c is not that much out on a 3GHz CPU with a stock cooler.

You will also remember the OP stating that temps drop by 10c to 57c when he takes the side of the case off. All this leads me to believe that there's nothing wrong with the HSF seating. A combination of adding adequate case ventilation and calibrating which ever temp monitoring program is used should both bring temps down and make them a truer representation of what's actually going on.

Also, unless you've calibrated your temp monitoring program to some degree of accuracy, can you really be sure of the temps of your cores?

[nimdok]

Re: GA-EP45-DS3L with continual memory issues

Try running memtest86+ with one stick only stick at all slots seperetly, different stick if one fail.
It could be the heat is not the problem though it's good to keep it low as possible.
How long did it take to prime95 to fail and waht test did it fail?

I installed a side intake fan in the side hole which is blowing right on the NB, that seem to bring the system temp (whatever it is) 2c down.

Well, I was running the Blend test of Prime95 while I was sleeping, and awoke to find that the computer had crashed - so I'd estimate it took anywhere from 4 to 7 hours.

Also, I just finished running a full Memtest86+ run for about 6 hours with the case off and both pieces of RAM in, and the heatsink of the RAM is definitely pretty hot. If I leave my finger on it for longer than 3 seconds it starts getting slightly too hot to touch. This could be a problem - any suggestions on how to proceed on this front?

The Memtest didn't give me any errors, but this is fairly normal. It takes either longer operation, or playing a game in Windows/doing something system intensive until I get a memory error/crash, and then a reboot into Memtest straight away to show errors.

Finally, one quick question I have is that the stock heatsink over the CPU seems to always be room temperature - is this normal? Not even warm, it doesn't seem to be radiating any heat at all -- perhaps it could not be seated right. I'll definitely be checking it later tonight unless this is normal.

In the mean time, I'll try to find the time to run to the store and purchase a new fan or two for the case - perhaps even something to replace the stock CPU fan/heatsink.

Thanks again for the help - even if my problem isn't a heating issue it'll eliminate that possibility and having a cool case temperature won't be a bad thing.