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**Lsdmeasap** · 04-10-2008, 12:52 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Crucial Die often, sorry to have to let you down there. That is what I would suggest, try one stick, and also try the one stick (if you have a working crucial one) in each slot. Just to be sure each slot is working

I do suggest to you, read more about crucial. While they are great, they do OFTEN die and it is usually just out of the blue. Most everyone says they work fine undervolted so I would suggest you keep them at 2.1. I just tested some lanfests and they worked fine at 800 + 1000 at 2.1. Voltage is often the culprit, but not always some say they die at 1.8 even.

But just so you know, I DO see more RMA threads for crucial then anything else. I almost daily see "Third RMA on my tracers anyone else have this issue" threads everywhere. Ballistix's are no different. They are a great company, and great ram.....Usually always Micron and that comes with the RMA might be needed quicker clause

Any and all brands certainly do need RMA's and even all have DOA but I honestly see this more with crucial then anyone, have a google gander at "Crucial RMA" OR "Crucial Ram Dead" and you will see

I suggest < Mushkin!!! It is what I have in both of my GA boards without issues, and have used several models and had no problems

**dclayw** · 04-10-2008, 02:19 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Thanks for the quick response. Yes I was aware of the recent problems with crucial, maybe just a bad batch or something. But I'm still not convinced the memory is bad, I could be wrong ofcourse.

I put the 2x1GB tracers in my son's Dimersion E520 and ran memtest86, one full pass (about 40 minutes), and no errors on those tracers. It's still running memtest now.

So the memory seems fine, as I would expect brand new/never used before memory to be. There certainly seems to compatability issues with this memory in Gigabyte boards though. But I don't understand why, it works in some and not others. What is differnet about this memory other then the 2.2v. I'm building a showcase machine so I'd like to get the tracers working, for the LED light show.

Can you recommend anything else I can try? Did I set the voltage right in the bios? Should I try a lower voltage. Are there any other bios settings that may help with this. The thing about testing this is that every time you want to make a change to the bios you have to put old memory in because the thing won't respond to the keyboard with the tracers in.

**Lsdmeasap** · 04-10-2008, 02:24 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Hmm, well what are your settings? I would think maybe you need some more MCH and Possibly other voltages. Post back, add or remove anything needed>>>>

Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [8]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [450]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [102]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]

CAS Latency Time_________________ ?
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay__________ ?
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_________?
Precharge Delay (tRAS)____________ ?
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)____________ ?
Rank Write to READ Delay__________ ?
Write to Precharge Delay___________ ?
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ ?
Read to Precharge Delay____________ ?
Static tRead Value_______________ 1-31
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 1-31

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.300V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.25]

**dclayw** · 04-10-2008, 08:57 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Your last post is a bit unclear. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at.

The only BIOS settings I have changed are DDR2 voltage (+0.4 so it's now 2.2v) and enabled USB mouse and keyboard. All other settings are the same.

Can you be a liitle more explicit about what you would like me to change and perhaps a bit of an explanation as to why that change might be needed.

I don't understand why this ram will not boot at the mobos default 1.8v.

Would appreciate comments from anyone who has this mobo with this ram.

**Lsdmeasap** · 04-10-2008, 03:05 PM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

I wanted you to change your MCH voltage because you are using 1066 ram. And I wanted you to copy what I posted and paste back your settings so I can see if maybe I see another issue. More MCH voltage would be needed to make 1066 stable. And even if you are trying 1.8 auto is not always stable or correct.

So simply I am trying to help you set things up to work. Overclocked or not you should manually set things in the MIT section

**dclayw** · 04-10-2008, 09:10 PM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Ok, thanks. I will go through what you suggested but first I'm going to put the Ballistix aside for the moment and concentrate on getting something working with the 2 sticks of 512mb memory I have. I just want to rule out any problems with the motherboard.

I wanted to do a memtest86 on these 2 sticks of 512mb (Kingston PC4200) with those sticks in the x38 motherboard, (just to ensure memtest86 is working OK before I run it on the Ballistix). If you remember the system posts (one short beep) and I get into the bios (keyboard responds) when I have those 2 512mb sticks in the new build. But memtest freezes before it even starts, it kind of half loads the startup screen and doesn't start any tests. I don't think there is a problem with this memory (although I have neved specifically memtested it, it's been running in another machine with absolutely no problems for 18 months). The memtest boot CD has been used in other machines without problem. Is there something I need to do to configure my DVD drive, like enable SATA or something? The thing boots OK with the XP pro startup disk. As an aside, is there any particular SATA port I should use for the boot disk.

I tried booting with only a single 512mb stick, posted (one short beep) but no keyboard access, exactly the same problem as with the Ballistix, just sits at the Gigabyte logo screen. I then tried the other stick in the same slot, same result, posted but no keyboard access. I tried each 512mb stick in various slots, booting with just one stick each time, all with the same result. Can this board not support a single stick of 512mb PC4200, or is there something wrong with the board?

There shouldn't be any need but I'll let you know what else is in this build, maybe there is something peculiar about connecting certain devices to certain SATA ports or something. I have 2 SATA drives, 2 GFX cards (Geforce 7600gt and 7300le for triple monitor setup) and Xeon 3110 CPU.

Something else I should let you know. Most of the time (not always) when I turn the system on (this is with 2x512mb ram in it) it powers off after a few seconds then powers back on a couple of seconds later. Sometimes it will do this twice (it's never done it more then 2 cycles so far). Then it posts and and I can get into the bios. When I first saw this I thought, oh no..... the continuous reboot cycle. Any thoughts?

**Lsdmeasap** · 04-11-2008, 12:10 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

No, ports will not matter for disks, unless you dont have the bios setup right for certain controllers/ports. The yellow ones are controlled by The intel chip and are the top settings in advanced BIOS pages, and the purple ports are jmicron/gigabyte ports controlled by the gigabyte/jmicron chip and are the setting toward the lower are dealing with drives in the advanced BIOS page.

What memtest86 version are you using? If it is 2.1 do you have a floppy to try instead of CD? If so I suggest that, if not let me know. And if you can please post all your bios pages when this happens so I can see if indeed maybe you do have something set funny. And also, tell me what disks you have plugged in where when you do post those images. You can zip them or just post the images right here, either way is fine with me

I would imagine the board should run fine with one 4200 stick but maybe not. I can tell you for sure the double reboot is your board resetting the BIOS because of incorrect overclock settings.

I suggest also only have one gfx card in there for now (I dont think two Nvidia cards is going to be a easy thing to setup on a Crossfire board either), and add some voltages to everything. Like +.1 on MCH,FSB, and set your ram to what is should be. If it is 1.8 dont leave it on auto, go ahead and set it to +.1=1.9 (Just so we can be sure that isnt the issue)

Please fill out the table I posted above with the settings you are trying, otherwise I am just trying in the dark to help you and we are not going to get anywhere. you can take pictures of the MIT page if you think that would be easier for you.

But yes, I think you need to set somethings in the bios, that is why the double reboot.

What BIOS are you using, and is it the only one you have used?

**SpinachEater** · 04-11-2008, 01:19 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

I do suggest to you, read more about crucial. While they are great, they do OFTEN die and it is usually just out of the blue. Most everyone says they work fine undervolted so I would suggest you keep them at 2.1. I just tested some lanfests and they worked fine at 800 + 1000 at 2.1. Voltage is often the culprit, but not always some say they die at 1.8 even.

Indeed. If you filter a forum to just look at a memory section, hands down the majority of the posts with RAM errors involve Crucial. Here is an interesting Anand thread. I got the 2x2GB DDR2 800 Ballistix set but haven't ran them yet. I am thinking about trading them in for a set of Corsair or Mushkin just to avoid any potential problems. There seems to be something hairy going on with their batches these days.

AnandTech - Crucial's Response to Problems with Ballistix Memory

The good news is that Crucial seems to be replacing them without hassles.

**dclayw** · 04-11-2008, 09:07 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Long post, but I think I'm getting somewhere:

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

What memtest86 version are you using? If it is 2.1 do you have a floppy to try instead of CD? If so I suggest that, if not let me know. And if you can please post all your bios pages when this happens so I can see if indeed maybe you do have something set funny. And also, tell me what disks you have plugged in where when you do post those images. You can zip them or just post the images right here, either way is fine with me

I am using memtest86 v2.01, I thought that was the latest version. I don't have a floppy in this build, haven't had a floppy for may last 3 or so PCs

This is a brand new build, the first boot was yesterday. On this first boot with the Ballistix in I got post but no keyboard access, hence no BIOS access. This is when I took the Ballistix out and put 2x512 Kingstons in. Then I could access the BIOS. I then enabled USB keyboard/mouse and increased DDR2 voltage by +0.4. That is all I have changed.

I have 2 hard drives, one plugged into SATAII0 (that will be my boot drive) and the other in SATAII2. The DVD is plugged into SATAII1. These hard drives have not been setup yet.

Here are my settings. I assume BIOS sets some of these depending on what memory etc you have installed.

Robust Graphics Booster___________ Auto
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ 9x
CPU Host Clock Control_ Disabled
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________266
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ Auto
C.I.A. 2_________________________ Disabled
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ Auto
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ Auto

Note: DRAM timing is set to Auto
CAS Latency Time_________________ 5
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay__________ 7
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_________ 7
Precharge Delay (tRAS)____________ 24
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)____________ 4
Rank Write to READ Delay__________ 4
Write to Precharge Delay___________ 8
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 68
Read to Precharge Delay____________ 4
Static tRead Value_______________ 6
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0
System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ Normal
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ Normal
FSB OverVoltage Control___ Normal
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control Normal
CPU Voltage Control_______ Normal

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

I would imagine the board should run fine with one 4200 stick but maybe not. I can tell you for sure the double reboot is your board resetting the BIOS because of incorrect overclock settings.

The board does not boot with a single stick of PC4200, not in any slot.

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

I suggest also only have one gfx card in there for now (I dont think two Nvidia cards is going to be a easy thing to setup on a Crossfire board either), and add some voltages to everything. Like +.1 on MCH,FSB, and set your ram to what is should be. If it is 1.8 dont leave it on auto, go ahead and set it to +.1=1.9 (Just so we can be sure that isnt the issue)

I will take out one of the gfx cards. I'm not setting up crossfire, I just need triple monitors, therefore 2 cards, there is no gaming involved, I don't game at all, this is a business machine.

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

What BIOS are you using, and is it the only one you have used?

I am using F2 BIOS, that's what the board came with. I have not updated it.

An update:

Well, I thought I'd tried this before, maybe I hadn't. I initially had the 2 Ballistix sticks in the red slots (furtherest from the cpu). I put them in the yellow slots (closest to the cpu) and it boots. This is with DDR2 voltage at the normal setting, i.e. no increase in DDR voltage. It does not boot with the Ballistix in the red slots. Maybe I'm showing my ignorance here but shouldn't I be able to use either the red slots or the yellow slots when using 2 sticks. I didn't think you had to use the ones nearest the cpu. The 2x512mb run Ok in the red slots, very odd. I tried 4 sticks, the 2x1GB Ballistix with the 2x512mb Kingstons and that booted as well. I booted it several times with all 4 sticks in and it did fail once (posted but no keyboard access).

I don't know a lot about memtest86 either but when I ran that against the 4 sticks together it came up with the half loaded memtest screen and then froze, just like it did with a single stick. Does this suggest there is something wrong with the one or both of the red memory slots? I ran a full pass of memtest with just the Ballistix (in the yellow slots) and got no errors. But later passes got errors on several tests. These tests were run with NO changes made to the BIOS, except for the USB enabling.

I will probably overclock this build but for now I am not overclocking. I just want a stable system running at stock speeds. OK, I've been running some tests while writing this. With no changes to the BIOS the DDR18V reading in PC Health Status is 2.24v. Boots Ok with this but gets memtest errors. I then increased DDR voltage in 0.05v steps up to 0.4, no other BIOS changes. All these tests give memtest errors. The middle range voltages (around 1.90-1.95v) seem to get less errors.

I then did the same tests (DDR in 0.05v steps) but this time increased MCH by +0.1v. Actually got one full memtest pass without any errors but errors on subsequent passes. This was with DDR voltage at +0.15v.

Anyway I haven't been able to get it stable yet but it boots with the Ballistix (but only in the yellow slots). There are a lot of combinations to tweak so I'm looking for advice on what settings to tweak to get this memory stable. I'm not overclocking.

I have just run a test with the DDR set to 800 rather then 1066 (setting SPD to 2.40, no other BIOS changes) and this is the first time I have been able to get 2 memtest passes with no errors. DDRV18 is 1.88v.

Based on the above can I be confident the board is OK. And I'm not sure about the memory yet. It certainly doesn't seem to run at what Crucial rates it at, not on my board anyway.

**Lsdmeasap** · 04-11-2008, 11:41 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Yeah usually you can use either, but it is always best to use those slots closest to your CPU.

The errors are likely caused by all 4 sticks, you cannot mix and match ram and expect no errors. So that is likely the cause there.

2.2-4 is TOO MUCH, use +0.3 for 2.1-5 that will be plenty. +0.5 is WAY to much, increasing voltages is NOT the way to overcome memory errors, and DOES NOT cause them. Timings!!!!!

Specifically the static tRead you will likely never get to use 6, I suggest starting on 10 for now until you get things stable and then you can work it and the rest down as you please

It is all in timings, errors that is.

Here is what I suggest you do as a high starting point. First go ahead and set the ram freq to be close to but not exactly 1066 (Above or below a little, change FSB if you need to a little bit)

Then set the following timings ALL OF THEM, voltages I also suggest you use as well

Start high moving low as you go

CAS Latency Time_____________ 5
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay______ 5
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_____5
Precharge Delay (tRAS)________15
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_______4-5
Rank Write to READ Delay______3-5
Write to Precharge Delay______6-8
Refresh to ACT Delay________52-62
Read to Precharge Delay_______4-5
Static tRead Value_______________ 7-10
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 1-31 <<< leave on auto or not set

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.300V] =2.1 (This is plenty, especially if you want to keep those crucials)
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V] <<< or +0.15
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.25] <<< Set to what your CPU VID is or close to it

**dclayw** · 04-12-2008, 02:22 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

Yeah usually you can use either, but it is always best to use those slots closest to your CPU.

But does the fact that I can't use the slots furtherest from the cpu indicate a problem with the board?

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

The errors are likely caused by all 4 sticks, you cannot mix and match ram and expect no errors. So that is likely the cause there.

The only reason I did this was to see if the memory in those slots furtherest from the cpu would be recognised with all slots populated. I was testing to see if the red slots are working on this board.

Originally posted by Lsdmeasap View Post

2.2-4 is TOO MUCH, use +0.3 for 2.1-5 that will be plenty. +0.5 is WAY to much, increasing voltages is NOT the way to overcome memory errors, and DOES NOT cause them. Timings!!!!!

2.24v is what the DDR18V shows in PC Health status with NO changes to the BIOS. Once I started increasing the DDR voltage the most I added was 0.4 volts. When I set DDR overvoltage to +0.4v DDR18V shows 2.24v. Crucial say this memory is supposed to be run at 2.2v, that's initially what I was trying to run it at. I didn't increase the voltage to overcome memory errors, I set the voltage to match the memorys rated voltage (1.8v+0.4v=2.2v) and got memory errors. It was then I went and run memtest with DDR voltage in 0.05v steps up to 2.2v, as I indicated in my last post.

The most that DDR18V has ever shown is 2.24v and that was what it got set to with NO changes to the BIOS, (or when I increased DDR voltage by 0.4v).

Does the fact that memtest reports errors when the memory is running at it's rated voltage and timings suggest the memory is faulty?

I'll go through your other suggestions and post again later.

**Lsdmeasap** · 04-12-2008, 02:29 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

No Crucial just has tons of issues here lately, read this>>>>
AnandTech - Crucial's Response to Problems with Ballistix Memory

*EDIT*
Just seen you have posted there as well, and you knew what you were getting into. So now you have learned the hard way, RMA NOW before you go nuts trying to stabilize something that just likely isnt going to happen

I would think your board is fine. You could test with other ram to be sure if you have some.

Yeah, ram that does not run at it's stated specs is not worthy of keeping. 2.24 is more then 2.2! HAHA I keep saying no matter what it says 2.2 alone is too much even if that is the spec, but granted you are getting no where with 2.24 even I would RMA that ram for a REFUND soon as you can, and get away from crucial while you can

Hey, look over my post above again I just seen some items I posted comments about didnt show because of how this boards coding works. You cannot use <<<< symbols with any spaces between <<< 's and letter or it dont show up. I have since fixed it.

But yeah, I would RMA ASAP

**dclayw** · 04-13-2008, 02:17 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

OK, I'm going to RMA that Crucial ram. It gets memtest errors at rated timings and voltage, and it gets memtest errors at all voltages below the rated 2.2v. Don't know if I can get a refund or just a replacement.

But I'm still unsure about the board. As I stated earlier the board posts with 1 stick of 512mb PC4200 (533Mhz) Kingston ram, but it hangs at the Gigabyte logo (on the POST screen it's hanging just after it tests the memory as being OK). This is not normal is it? It should not hang. The memory is OK, I have memtested in another machine.

The board will boot OK with 2x512mb PC4200 Kingstons in either slots 1&3, or 2&4, but in both cases memtest hangs and doesn't start any tests. This is not normal either is it? The ram tests OK in another machine. This is all with no BIOS changes.

And the board boots with the Crucial in slots 1&3, but will not boot with them in slots 2&4. Sure that could be a memory problem, but maybe its also a board problem. There is at least one other poster here who cannot get slots 2&4 working, see this post: http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/ex38...estions-26383/ I remember reading about similar problems in other forums with this board.

It might be a difficult question to answer, but I'm looking for confirmation that the board is OK and the fact that slots 2&4 don't work with some ram is "normal" behaviour.

**Lsdmeasap** · 04-13-2008, 02:25 AM

Re: GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

Well if you bought the ram at Newegg I know for sure you can get a refund -15% restock fee

I would think it hangs with the one stick of 4200 because of timings and voltages, you are using auto when trying that right? If so try manually setting it all and see if that helps.

Memtest shouldn't hang, can you hit c and pick a test #? It is strange, but to me not strange enough to RMA a board. But that is up to you. I would say if the board works with the memory you get next time then keep it

I cannot comment about 2+4 on your board since I dont have it, but I can say that it works on mine now after a BIOS update when in the past some of the BIOS's caused errors using them. So it could be both, just need a better BIOS (Which since the board is new there will be upcoming better ones) or it could be bad slots. If you have the time and patience you could rma because of that, but only Janus could tell you if it is a known board issue or a BIOS issue.

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GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

GA-EX38-DS4 with Ballistix Tracer PC2-8500

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