Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

[OSUDragonMT]

Hello All,

I am new to the forums and I have a question about combining RAM with different latencies. I recently upgraded my computer so I now can dual-boot Windows XP and Windows 7. I found 7 sluggish w/ my 2GB RAM so I purchased some RAM. I tried to find the same Corsair RAM that I was using, but I couldn't find anywhere to get it, so I got some decent looking Crucial RAM instead. I installed it and once I got into Windows I've had videos not working and audio crackling or plain refusing to play (in Winamp). I was wondering if it could because the timings of the new and old RAM are not the same?

The Corsair RAM has these timings: 2.0-3-2-6 @ 200 MHz, 2.5v
The Crucial RAM has these timings: 3.0-3-3-8 @ 200 MHz, 2.5v but runs
2.5-3-3-7 @ 166 MHz, 2.5v

Should I bother adjusting the timings in the BIOS? What suggested settings/timings should I use? Or should I just buy another pair of the Crucial RAM?

Thanks for your input. Any other information you need - just ask.

Matt

Oh, in case you need to know, my current system specs:
ASUS A8N32sli Deluxe Motherboard
AMD Athlon 64 X2, 2400 MHz (12 x 200) 4800+ CPU
2GB (2x1GB Pair) Corsair XMS Pro CMX1024-3500LLPRO RAM (Old)
2GB (2x1GB Pair) Crucial DDR PC3200 RAM (New)
Nvidia GeForce 9400 GT PCIe Video Card
Creative SoundBlaster Xi-Fi Audio Card
1TB Seagate SATA HDD
500GB Maxtor SATA HDD
160GB Maxtor IDE HDD

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

It would save you some hassle and headache if you could afford another set of Crucial.

If not then you would set the Corsair to run at the same timings and it might be ok.

That board is very old though, so it may have a tough time running 4x1GB, and that could be the cause of the problems. It could also have similar problems with 2x2GB, so you may be better off buying a newer board if you can.

[OSUDragonMT]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

Other than the audio/video not working with all 4GB of RAM the computer was running fine. I think I'll just get more Crucial RAM and be done with it rather than try to mess around with anything. Also, it's weird I have had more trouble w/ audio with the Crucial RAM - I've had to re-install drivers a couple of times because they get corrupted somehow.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

It's probably because your BIOS is not setting the voltage correctly, especially with 4GB.

You need to set the ram voltage, and increase Northbridge voltage as well for 4GB

[OSUDragonMT]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

I decided to buy a matching pair of RAM, but now I get BSODs with different STOP errors (x50 and xA, which indicate RAM might be bad). I've tried just the new and just the old pairs of Crucial RAM in DIMMs A1 and B1 and Windows boots just fine, but if I try both pairs I get the STOP messages. I have tried MemTest and I get 12,000+ errors. I think one of the DIMMs may be bad, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions??

I did try adjusting the North Bridge voltage and the DIMM voltage, but it too did not work. It froze my PC from booting and I had to clear CMOS to get it again. (Maybe due to trying to change timing to 1T instead of auto?)

I know others have had this problem, but so far it seems no one has a work around. I may have to sell one set of the Crucial and the Corsair RAM to try and recoup some of my money I just spent trying to upgrade :/

[Psycho101]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

Very unlikely you'll get 1T working with all DIMM slots populated using that board. In fact I'm 99.999% sure you won't on any socket 939 board without extreme luck. Yes, those AMD platforms do like 1T timings and it will boost performance much more than it does on current platforms, but if performance in a concern then clocking that CPU a little would more than make up for it.

Start by using overly loose timings at 2T and see if you can boot. From there adjust timings until you can't. At that point you should find out what is/was holding you back from using four sticks.

On some A64 systems I have worked on, HyperTransport was the issue. I believe that 1000MHz is the default. Lowering the multiplier a notch has helped me achieve stability many times, especially with large amounts of RAM (back 6-7 years ago 8GB was monsterous). You won't see any performance loss at all, even in synthetic tests until you dip below maybe ~750MHz. HT was way more bandwidth than those CPU's could use and was a key stability issue if over clocked too.

I have had luck on 939 platforms by setting a RAM divider. Not sure how it works on your ASUS, but on MSI 939 boards, rather than a ratio, it gave clock speed values that the RAM would run at if selected and using a standard base clock. On this platform you can also make the RAM run SLOWER than 1:1. Give a less than 1:1 ratio a try, decreasing the CPU multi and HT multi and raising the Base clock until the RAM is running at 200MHz (400 DDR). On my MSI I would need to set the RAM speed to 183MHz, then I would be able to increase the base clock to 217MHz before the RAM would be running at 200MHz. Same goes for the next multi down, which should be RAM = 166 @ 200 base clock allowing up to 234MHz with the RAM still in spec.

[OSUDragonMT]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

I'll try using my RAM in different combos and running MemTest+ to see if I get any errors. If I find that all DIMMs and sticks of RAM are good I will try my hand at adjusting the voltage.

What voltages do you think I should change, and to what values? I haven't overclocked before, so I have no idea where to start or what all of the settings are.

Thanks.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

Set the ram voltage to 2.0, then test each stick one at a time with the latest Memtest86+

[OSUDragonMT]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

Just to let you know what's been going on concerning my RAM issues . . .

I've tested each pair using MemTest+ keeping them in dual channel configuration. All of them passed for all DIMMs, so I will start adjusting voltages and let you know how it goes from there.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

Sounds like they are all healthy then, and as you planned you just need to tweak the voltages until you get things stable.

[OSUDragonMT]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

When I go into BIOS to adjust voltages there are too many options. I did find a setting for overclocking NB Vcore and DDR Vcore. I adjusted the DDR Vcore to 2.6v (lowest it would let me choose) and enabled NB Vcore overclock to 1.3v. Doing this gives me a BSOD w/ 4GB RAM. I adjusted the RAM clock to 166Mhz and I can get into Windows with some sound issues (it cracks and freezes, then quits altogether). What settings should I adjust next? Sorry to be a bother and thanks again for everyone's help.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

Sorry I mean to say 2.5V for the memory, or maybe a touch more since you are using two kits.

What was the default NB voltage? Sorry I can suggest exact settings, I don't know the board, chipset, or BIOS really so I am just guessing trying to help.

That board may not be able to handle 4GB easily, do you know anyone using 4GB on it without issues?

[Psycho101]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

I'l re-cap form my last post, with less emphasis on shifting multipliers, HT etc. Sorry if all that info confused.

One very quick test that I would always try to 99% eliminate a CPU issue would be to follow up to and including step 5 below, ie set RAM specs then drop CPU multiplier from stock (12?) to 10. Now find Hyper Transport Link/ HT Link Multiplier (or similar) and lower it one notch. The multiplier should be 5 at stock, or if a MHz display is given, should read 1000MHz. Lower to 4 or to 800MHz, which ever system the board uses. This has zero performance impact, so if 800MHz HT magically makes the RAM stable, it's fine to stay there.

If all that fails, go through the below steps from 1-9, after restoring CPU and HT link speeds via their multipliers.

1. Start with RAM Timings. Choose a set of timings that BOTH sets of RAM can do. IN your case I'd choose 3-3-3-8, or to be on the safe side initially test 3-4-4-10, then move up to 3-3-3-8.
   
2. Set Command Rate to 2T. Early Athlon IMC's IME really had trouble with all DIMM slots populated. I could never achieve 1T with 4 DIMMS, even 4 x 512MB single sided, single density DIMMS (Tried Micron, Hynix and Toshiba generic sets as well as Corsair branded).
   
3. Unless you can get a couple of photo's of the advanced RAM timings, best leave any others on Auto. Different motherboards describe them differently, any proprietary settings which may be architecturally unique may confuse too.
   
4. Set voltage initially to 2.5V. IMO you can safely increase to 2.65-2.7v. Any more than this and you may run into heat issues. DDR gets quite warm.
   
5. Try with the RAM multi at stock for the slowest kit, which is PC3200 or 200MHz (DDR-400)
   
6. If that doesn't boot, first increase voltage in steps from 2.5V to 2.7V, trying to boot after each increase.
   
7. If you get a boot do 3-4 runs of LinX/Intel Burn Test. This will give you an initial feel for a system worth testing further with Prime95.
   
8. If it fails and you haven't gone all the way to 2.7V, then reboot and keep on increasing voltage up to 2.7V to see if that stablizes LinX results.
   
9. If still no joy, drop voltage back to 2.5V, set the RAM multi one notch slower than 200, so either 183MHz or 166MHz, which ever is available, and start again from step 6 (increase voltage from 2.5V to 2.7V in stages).

[OSUDragonMT]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

No problem. The original NB voltage was 1.2v I can only increase it to 1.3v. I don't personally know anyone else using this mobo, but it seems like others online have been able to use 4GB. Their issues seem to be more of not seeing the total 4GB in Windows.

[Psycho101]

Re: Combining RAM/Issues after installing RAM

In addition to my post above, it's important NB voltage is set reasonably. 1.3V should be absolutely fine but try at the half way point first, ie 1.25V or as close as possible. A small boost to SB (NF4 chipset) voltage is also worth while. While it would seem that this voltage should have nothing to do with RAM or stability, myself and others have needed to increase it by a small amount when tinkering with RAM, base clock or both. Stock should be 1.5V. 1.54/1.55V should be plenty.

Also note that NF4 based boards list the primary RAM timings out of the usual order. Correct order for all MSI and ASUS boards is CAS - tRAS-tRP - tRCD so if entering specs of for example 3-4-4-10 the screen should read 3-10-4-4- from top to bottom, CAS to tRCD.