Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Don't know if anyone is still watching this thread; I've spent the last few days making backups and generally being busy with other things so I haven't had time to continue researching this overclock build. However I did have a few more questions.

After doing some more internet research there seems to be some consensus that DDR3 for LGA 775 is unstable. However, the GA-EP45-UD3P referenced in the thread that profJim linked goes for over $300 refurbished on ebay, and the "next best thing" (the UD3LR) is still over $100, making it effectively out of my price range. Any ideas on a motherboard that could still get me up to 3.8 GHz but is within my budget? I'd prefer mATX but I can't really afford to be picky.

Also, it seems like some people have had trouble installing Windows 7 x64 with the modified X5460. I downloaded a hotfix that might remedy this issue should I encounter it, but has anyone else encountered this problem? It seems the solution has something to do with updating the BIOS, which seems risky.

[profJim]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

As I recall SmOgER originally used a higher end Asus P45 motherboard that used DDR3 memory.

Last October I bought an EP45-UD3P system on eBay (USA) which included 8GB of higher end DDR2 memory, a Q9550, HD6950 video card and a Scythe Mugen 2 cpu cooler for less than $250. I only wanted the motherboard but decided to keep the rest of the hardware. And yes, I got lucky!! At that time used, not refurbished EP45-UD3P's from private parties were going for $100 - $125 but at that time bidders didn't want to pay for a nearly complete system.

Luke did pretty well with his P35-DS3L but couldn't get his X5460 stable at 4.0GHz. As I recall the EP45-UD3P that he bought in the U.K. was about $100 (USD).

Chances are that any of the higher end P45 boards from other manufacturers will do nicely, but you'll need to research the original mobo reviews to make the right choice. For what it's worth, I had a much easier time overclocking my Q9650 with my P35-DS4 to 4.10GHz. The only problem with the P35 is that if I wanted to use both of the x16 pci-e slots at the same time, I wouldn't be able to use any of the x1 pci-e slots.

Keep in mind that older compatible DDR3 memory might be less expensive than comparable DDR2 memory. Last year a 2 x 2GB kit of higher end DDR2 memory was going for about $80. With the "right" DDR3 memory you might reach 1600MHz, but many struggled to get their memory speeds at or above ~1333MHz.

Send SmOgER a PM, include a link to this thread and ask him for his words of wisdom.

Good luck, let us know how you make out.

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Ah, the pearls of wisdom fall at last.

I'll do as you suggest and send SmOgER a PM, when I get home. I had forgotten about the rise in DDR2 price due to scarcity, so that will probably factor into my plans. Thanks for the feedback.

Also posting to this forum from mobile is really annoying. Wow.

[profJim]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

You're welcome, glad to help out.

Careful there; pearls of wisdom? You'll ruin my hard earned reputation.

See if SmOgER has any hardware for sale, the last that I heard he was going to buy and resell Xeon processors.
Maybe he has a motherboard and/or memory that he can sell you.

Posting to the forum from a mobile phone? You're a better man than I am.

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Well I sent SmOgER a PM a few days ago, but since it still reads unconfirmed I'm guessing he hasn't seen it yet. Maybe he doesn't have email alerts for his PMs. It looks like I'll have to keep doing research without his input, unfortunately.

It looks like DDR2 prices aren't so bad; there's an 8gb set for $25 on ebay right now which seems pretty reasonable. If that's the case I think I'll be reconsidering a DDR2 motherboard. Here are a few that I was looking at, based on current ebay prices:


GIGABYTE GA-EP45-UD3L [$69]
ASUS P5Q SE PLUS [$69]
GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3LR [$70]
ASUS P5Q TURBO [$72]
MSI P45 Neo3 V2 [$75]

I believe the Gigabyte UD3L would perform comparably to the superior UD3P, but lacks features like Crossfire or RAID capability, which I am not too attached to. However the DS3LR and Neo3 have ICH10R I/O controller, which I gather means having native AHCI support which equates to faster hard drive speeds even with SSDs. I haven't found much yet in terms of their overclocking ability though. Any ideas?

Honestly I'm leaning toward the P5Q Turbo since it has SATA II support and ICH10R. It also seems to have an easy pre-OS utility for updating the BIOS. However there may be some obvious advantage some other board has that I'm overlooking.

[Chike]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

AHCI and SATA II is standard on all P45 motherboard.
I would go with the P5Q Turbo just because the fancy VRMs heat spreader.
But read user reviews first and see if you can find anything on each of them and Xeon X5460

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

I would go with the P5Q Turbo just because the fancy VRMs heat spreader.

Yeah, after reading up on VRM and MOSFET that was the first thing that I noticed about the board; based on the heatsinks alone you can tell it was built with overclocking in mind.

But read user reviews first and see if you can find anything on each of them and Xeon X5460

Good idea. Based on my preliminary research it seems like the P5Q could have problems posting with the Xeon unless you mod the BIOS. I think it has something to do with RAM speed not matching? I'll have to look into that more.

Are heat spreaders any use with overclocking builds? I've heard they are useless but with a good amount of airflow in the case I wondered if they could actually make a difference.

[Chike]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Are heat spreaders any use with overclocking builds? I've heard they are useless but with a good amount of airflow in the case I wondered if they could actually make a difference.

I think they are made for a reason.
My P43 heat spreader on the EP43-UD3L used to get very hot, the one on the P45 of the EP45-UD3LR was barely warm, I cannot tell if it is due to the different design or what.
I also improvised VRM cooling on both of those boards http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...tml#post308275
One thing you have to consider is that all of those boards are very old, 5+ years and may pass away shortly, both my P4x boards are now dead.

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

both my P4x boards are now dead.

I know I'm rolling the dice, which is why I want to get the best quality board I can for my budget. I'm hoping that even buying used, a decent quality board will hold up for at least a couple more years.

Where did you get those cool mini heatsinks for the chokes in that picture you linked?

[Chike]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Was at 2009, you don't expect me to remember LOL.
Google mosfet heatsink

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

It was only 6 years ago

Based on what I'm seeing from this list of compatible motherboards, the P5Q Turbo was reported to work with the E0 X5450. The P5Q SE Plus was reported to work with several different types of Xeons including the X5492 and the E5450. The DS3LR wasn't listed, but the DS3L worked with the L5420. The Neo3 V2 wasn't listed, but the Neo, Neo2, and Neo-F versions all worked with the C0 E5450. The UD3L was reported to work with the X5460 as confirmed by several users of this forum.

Based in this and various anecdotal reports I can infer that all of these boards should be able to run the E0 X5460, even if it requires a bit of BIOS tinkering. The question remains as to which is the best, and it's hard to find data that compares these motherboards head to head...at least in English. One Asian site I found rated the P5Q Turbo way above the UD3L; perhaps because it has some features the other lacks and uses an 8-phase power mode as opposed to 4-phase. However, based on their information the P5Q lacks any kind of baked-in hardware monitoring, which the UD3L comes with. There were no user reviews of the P5Q to compare with the UD3L ones though.

The DS3LR also seems to use a 4-phase system although its page on the Intel site boasts some kind of "multi-gear" phase switching, whatever that means. It's supposed to save power during idle and deliver "ultra smooth overclocking performance." However, other websites describe it as a "low end" board. It apparently doesn't support VRD10 CPUs.

Although I couldn't find any data, by the picture on eBay it looks like the Neo3 v2 also uses a 4-phase setup. That makes the P5Q Turbo the only board in this list with an 8-phase VRM. Since my understanding is that this design is superior for overclocking, this board seems to be the best choice among this list by this metric. However, I'm willing to concede that there may still be something I'm overlooking.

Anecdotal evidence and my modest research seem to agree that the P5Q Turbo is very good for overclocking. Not as good as, say, the Pro or Pro Turbo versions, or the UD3P. Until I come across any data that suggests otherwise, for the time being I think I'm going to settle on this as my pick for a DDR2 board.

---

I also want to take a second to thank you guys - Chike, MattVRX, parsec, and profJim - for taking the time to help me sift through all these options and come to solid conclusions. Without your guidance I'd still probably be stuck groping in the dark for what criteria make a good overclocking system. I hope you'll continue to guide me through this process, because your input is greatly appreciated.

[profJim]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

You can check out [MOD] LGA775 Support For LGA771 Xeon CPUs to see what others have used but....
....there are 6,635 posts in the thread since October 5, 2013!!!

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Yeah...I believe I ran across this thread a few times looking up certain boards, but I didn't notice the "search this thread" function until I looked at it just now. Thanks for prompting me to double-check it. I'll have to go through it later today.

[LivingNexus]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

Just as an update, I recently found someone selling a P5Q Deluxe motherboard on reddit, which is a couple of steps up from what I was originally looking for, with its original packaging and accessories, and the best part is that it's already 771 modded. The seller included a Pentium E2160 and stock cooler as well as a 9400GT since the board has no internal graphics. I bought this along with a 430W 80+ Gold PSU for $82.

I found another guy selling 800Mhz DDR2 for $4/GB which was as good a deal as any I could find, so I bought four 2GB sticks and a 160GB 7200RPM HDD he had laying around for $42. Then I bought a case on sale from Newegg for $26. So in terms of my original budget, I'm actually (very slighty) ahead and got way more for my money besides.

The 9400GT unfortunately doesn't have enough shaders to be a dedicated PhysX card (bummer), but it's decent enough and is still far and away better than the integrated graphics in my laptop. It should easily let me watch 1080p youtube videos and play up-res emulated games. Even so, I'd like to get the most performance out of it that I can until I am able to get a real graphics card, so obviously I'm going to overclock it.

I still need to get an X5460, a better cooler, better GPU, and an SSD to consider this gaming rig "build complete." The Xeon has actually come down in price a bit, and I've seen several very good deals on SSD's float by on reddit but wasn't able to take advantage of them before they were snatched up. Unfortunately I'm out of money for the moment so it will be a couple of weeks before I can do any more, but I'm really happy about buying a basically fully-functioning computer for $150. I'll update again when all my components come in and I've put it all together.

[profJim]

Re: Theoretical build good for overclocking? [Xeon X5460]

In the TT MOD 771 thread, keeping a highly overclocked X5460 cpu at reasonable temperatures was a challenge.

Don't just buy a cheap ssd and don't buy any ssd that uses asynchronous Nand.
Check out http://forums.tweaktown.com/storage-...rformance.html

I recently installed a raid 0 boot drive using two Crucial BX100 250GB ssd's.
The BX100 250GB ssd is a budget priced ssd with very good performance and sells for $80 - $85.
The sata2 bandwidth on P45 motherboards means that you won't reach rated sata3 speeds, but it's still a worthwhile upgrade.
A 256GB ssd will have better performance than a 128GB ssd.
I posted some ssd benchmarks in http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...tml#post498921, post #655 & #666.

Your P5Q Deluxe motherboard was a higher end board in it's day, it has a full set of features and should be a very good overclocker.

What is the brand name and model number of your 430 watt, 80 Plus gold rated power supply?