Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

[waffling1]

Hi guys, I'm having a problem with my GPU. When I plug it in with both power cables to the GPU, the computer will not start. However, when I take out When I unplug the power cables, but leave the GPU connected in the PCIe slot, it does boot, albeit the fans are running on max speed.

My system components:
Z77X-UD3h
i5-3570k
BIOS version 18
400W PCP&C MKIII Silencer

I'm not sure what's causing the boot failure. I tried resetting the CMOS as well as plugging the card into different slots and resetting the CMOS again. I've asked people on teamliquid and many people ruled out my PSU not having enough power for my system.

One solution I heard of was someone unplugging EVERYTHING from the motherboard and then resetting the CMOS. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind why this method, but I've yet to try it, partly because I suspect it might be something else, and partially because I don't want to redo my CPU cooler and go through the hardware installation.

Other notes:
- I ran my GPU on another computer. It functioned. But it did kind of freeze the screen when I played Starcraft 2 and I built the first unit. I would alt tab, do task manager, immediately close task manager, return to game, and it would resume displaying and updating the screen.
- my BIOS is 18, not 19 beta. I'm using as is, coming from the box.
- I bought an open box mobo from microcenter. (maybe it's defective? what tests can be done to rule this out?)
- My last day to refund will be Wed apr 10.
- Can I just use my warranty if I go over the refund period?

Any help would be appreciated, thank you.

It seems the actions I can do now are:
1) unplug everything, and then replug everything.
2) update BIOS to from v18 to v19.
3) brilliant ideas you guys have

[Rale]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

400W PCP&C MKIII Silencer
Radeon 5830
I've asked people on teamliquid and many people ruled out my PSU not having enough power for my system.

you need at least a 500W power supply (better if it will be 600-650W) to start system and OC then.
You can try to use RESET button after start/stop when you press Power button.

- I ran my GPU on another computer. It functioned. But it did kind of freeze the screen when I played Starcraft 2 and I built the first unit. I would alt tab, do task manager, immediately close task manager, return to game, and it would resume displaying and updating the screen.

What PSU was there? Check your build on it.

[profJim]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

The first thing I would do is test with a good quality, more powerful power supply.
ATI Radeon - 5830 recommends a 500 watt minimum psu.
Can you borrow a good quality 500 watt or higher psu to test with?
Can you borrow and test with a less powerful video card that only needs one pci-e power cable?

AnandTech says that your psu comes with only one pci-e 6/8-pin psu power cable.
HardOCP states in their 5830 review that their system draws 195 watts from the wall outlet at idle. With 80% efficiency this means that your psu is supplying about 158 watts at idle. At full load running Furmark, their system draws 347 watts from the wall.

For maximum psu life it's best to run your power supply no higher that 80% of its rated capacity for extend periods of time, such as when you are gaming.

Buying an open box item can be a crap shoot. The hardware might be perfect or it might have problems.

[waffling1]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

i have an extra PCIe cable and i'm using both of the 8pin cables.

We've talked about the wattage recommendation at TL too.
Summary:
1) this is a quality PSU,
2) can actually deliver 440w according to some sources,
3) is enough to cover a one GPU build (benchmarks have had overclocked GPUs and systems at less than 400W,
4) PSU companies label wattage somewhat randomly. a 500W unit sometimes doesn't even deliver 450W, a 450W rated one sometimes can actually deliver 600W, etc. My brand is a quality one and can do more than the nominal 400W.
5) that the website's recommendations always over-recommends in order to cover their own hides, which makes sense (i.e. you don't actually need 500W+. Something like a rosewill capstone 450W would be just fine).
6) PSU efficiency is that it delivers what it states and the wall actually draws more. if my system is eating 300W at 80% efficiency, then my electric bill will show 400 / 0.80 = 500W worth of dollars. It does NOT pull 400W worth of electricity bills and gives me 400* 0.80 = 320W to my system. And you can check this against common sense and good design practice by asking yourself if you bought a 400W PSU and it couldn't deliver 400W, wouldn't you be pissed off? retailers know this, and easy engineering labeling makes sense too.

Other PSU was OCZ 700W Modxstream I'll try changing out only the PSU to rule out software issues.

[Rale]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

"Cold boot" has nothing to power efficiency and average usage. At start-up system can consume more power then supply can provide at that moment. (not about time delay - psu to the motherboard, before get normal voltages)

Therefore, people are advised to you to try "unplugging EVERYTHING" (one of the reason is reduce the boot load and disable standby voltage when you clear cmos), try to start with reset button or hold power button (to "bypass" psu protection) and try less powerful video and more powerful unit.

So your comments are surprising.

One solution I heard of was someone unplugging EVERYTHING from the motherboard and then resetting the CMOS. I'm not sure of the reasoning behind why this method, but I've yet to try it, partly because I suspect it might be something else, and partially because I don't want to redo my CPU cooler and go through the hardware installation.
1) this is a quality PSU,
2) can actually deliver 440w according to some sources,
3) is enough to cover a one GPU build (benchmarks have had overclocked GPUs and systems at less than 400W,
4) PSU companies label wattage somewhat randomly. a 500W unit sometimes doesn't even deliver 450W, a 450W rated one sometimes can actually deliver 600W, etc. My brand is a quality one and can do more than the nominal 400W.
5) that the website's recommendations always over-recommends in order to cover their own hides, which makes sense (i.e. you don't actually need 500W+. Something like a rosewill capstone 450W would be just fine).
6) PSU efficiency is that it delivers what it states and the wall actually draws more. if my system is eating 300W at 80% efficiency, then my electric bill will show 400 / 0.80 = 500W worth of dollars. It does NOT pull 400W worth of electricity bills and gives me 400* 0.80 = 320W to my system. And you can check this against common sense and good design practice by asking yourself if you bought a 400W PSU and it couldn't deliver 400W, wouldn't you be pissed off? retailers know this, and easy engineering labeling makes sense too.

[waffling1]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

OK, I found out why my computer wouldn't boot.

One of the GPU PCIe cables was not compatible. (WHO KNEW PCI CABLES WERE HAD COMPATIBILITY ISSUES! I would have never expected something like this when all of them are PCIe cables...)

So it does boot now, after removing the incompatible "red" cable. I'm only running on one power cable. But it has the same symptoms as having none: the FAN is blasted on max, and the GPU is not detected by GPU-Z or by the windows gadget GPU meter.

I downloaded the latest drivers and tools and installed them, but still no detection. I downloaded the first two files, (Catalyst software suite, and latest beta driver) not the 3rd (profiles)
AMD Catalyst

Could this still be a motherboard issue?

I'm going to try updating my BIOS from v 18 to v19beta and see if taht does anything. I didn't get v19beta because i thought beta might be more unstable. Do people customarily just get the latest regardless? Today is my last day to return the mobo.

[Rale]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

There is no incompatible 6/8 pin PCI power cables from PSU.
There was old psu that cant provide recommended wattage at 12v line so some vendors equip their videocard with molex 5v+12v adapters. But in most cases it is one line now (Some modern psu use only single line)
As variant: you can try using the "Variable Transformer" and raise the voltage from 220-230V to 250V.

Nothing to discuss until you check on a more powerful unit.

[waffling1]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

There is no incompatible 6/8 pin PCI power cables from PSU.
There was old psu that cant provide recommended wattage at 12v line so some vendors equip their videocard with molex 5v+12v adapters. But in most cases it is one line now (Some modern psu use only single line)
As variant: you can try using the "Variable Transformer" and raise the voltage from 220-230V to 250V.

Nothing to discuss until you check on a more powerful unit.

I tried running a GTX 670 (a more powerful card) and it booted.

1) I tried using just the "good" power cable and it booted, and told me to plug in the other one. I don't have another "good" power cable.
2) I tried using a "good" cable with a "bad" cable. It wouldn't boot.
3) I tried using just the "bad" cable and it wouldn't boot.

If it really was a matter of power, then the 3rd scenario should not have booted up the GTX 670, because the 1st scenario is providing the same amount of power.

For one reason or another, the "bad" cable is not compatible.

[Rale]

Re: Boot ail when GPU plugged in.

1. Power Consumption

XFX Radeon HD5830 DX11 Video Card | Benchmark,Review,HD-583X-ZNFV,XFX Radeon HD 5830,Video Card,Review,XFX Radeon HD 5830 Video Card HD-583X-ZNFV Benchmark Frame Rate Graphics Performance Review
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 670 Reference Design 14 W 167 W
XFX Radeon HD 5830 29W 207W
(The idle power consumption test is very close to the factory number of 25W, and the load value is 30W above the 175W factory spec from ATI. )

specs http://www.hwcompare.com/12563/gefor...adeon-hd-5830/

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_670/26.html

2. there no "good" and "bad" cable. Your card not properly work - One of the reason could be lack of power at the start-up (read above)
Find other "good" cable (get molex to pci from 670) or do it by yourself -> use connector from "molex to sata adapter" and your "bad": connect red and black to 12v(yellow) and GND(black)

3. last reason: nothing to discuss until you check on a more powerful unit
Several people have given you advice that can help you. Now we are guessing.

I hope you solve this problem