UPS question

[Triton05]

The power dropped 100% a few times over the last two weeks while I've been gaming. I don't have a ups, only a surge protector. So far everytime the pc boots back up fine. Chkdsk doesn't report any bad sectors so it seems nothing got damaged.

Due to these recent drops I've thought about investing in a UPS. Nothing crazy tho as I don't have much extra coin floating around at the moment.

Should the UPS output match my psu in my pc? I'm just a little confused as to what one I should buy.

Looking for advice. It would only have my pc and monitor plugged into it. PC in sig.

Thanks much for any direction!

[westom]

Re: UPS question

I've thought about investing in a UPS. ...
Should the UPS output match my psu in my pc?

First determine the power. Every appliance has a label adjacent to its power cord with that wattage or amperes. Read the label. Sum numbers for everything that requires UPS power. A computer typically consumes about or less than 200 watts. So its label might read 250 or 350 watts.

Now, a UPS is typically as cheap as possible with a life expectancy of maybe 3 years. Its battery will degrade quickly. So we size a UPS so that it will still provide sufficient power with a degraded battery. IOW if computer and monitor draw 350 watts, then UPS might be 500 watts. Sufficient margin for routine battery degradation (and other factors not discussed here).

Do not power a motorized appliances or a power strip protector from a UPS. Its output in battery backup mode is typically so 'dirty' as to be harmful to those devices. But all electronics are required to be so robust as to make that 'dirty' power irrelevant - ideal electricity.

Spending massive more money for a UPS of same wattage will do nothing. Your only concern is how long the battery can provide temporary power so that data can be saved.

[Triton05]

Re: UPS question

My concern, if my power supply unit on my PC has a max output of 600 watts. That and hefty video cards that consume 300+ watts or more full load.

My question is then. I should make sure I purchase a UPS device that is rated "watt" wise, what my computer is or could be pushing out. Right ?

So Ideally if my computer has the ability to draw 600 watts of energy, most likely its less then 500 watts. But Id be safe to buy a UPS thats rated for 600 watts for say 15min.

This way if the power goes out, I have that 15min margin of time to shut my PC down properly... correct?

( also, side question. Nothing that I can tell got negatively impacted by the power getting cut to my PC several times now. IS there anything I should check? Or are chances slim with todays newer computers that any damage really is done. Hardware wise )

[westom]

Re: UPS question

My concern, if my power supply unit on my PC has a max output of 600 watts. That and hefty video cards that consume 300+ watts or more full load.

The reality is that your video card is not consuming 300 watts. It cannot. Otherwise it would remove skin when you touch it. Not just burn. Remove. To hype power supplies to the naive, they hype more watts - that your system never needs.

More confusion. A 350 watt supply from a responsible manufacturer is also rated as a 500 watt supply by third parties. Nobody is lying. The numbers are measuring different things. Your computer is consuming 200 watts total. Less than 250 if it is a highest performance gaming machine. So we put an oversized 350 watt supply on those machines. Or the same power supply circuit sold by third parties as 500 watts.

A computer with a 600 watt supply is still consuming about 200 watts. Either learn this. Or get a Kil-A-Watt or digital multimeter to measure that reality. The reasoning was posted with a massive safety margin. That 200 watt computer with monitor that might require 350 watts means a 500 watt UPS is more than sufficient.

Did damage result? A defective power supply can still boot and run a computer. But will be quickly evident if using a digit multimeter to measure DC voltages when the system is fully loaded. Other parts can be verified using a comprehensive hardware diagnostic that is provided only by better computer manufacturers. And finally, view system (event) logs where Windows records a problem while bypassing it.

[mm67]

Re: UPS question

My system running OCCT PSU test overclocked to 4.1 GHz uses 434 W according to power meter. You have a dual core so your cpu uses less power but your graphics board uses more than my GTS 250 so overall max usage might be similar. Any game won't run system as hard as that stress test but it's good to have some extra capacity, I wouldn't buy a UPS that isn't capable of at least 600 W.

[Triton05]

Re: UPS question

Looking at reviews of my card. Looks like systems running just the bare minimums to "test" the card are pulling 350w on avg.

I have a few 120mm fans and my E8400 is running at a higher then standard Vcore. Additionally, my NB voltage and DRAM are up a bit too.

Id say its safe to assume full load, I could quite possibly be breaking 400watt system..

[westom]

Re: UPS question

say its safe to assume full load, I could quite possibly be breaking 400watt system..

No power supply can be damaged by the load. Intel ATX requirements list how big the wire must be to short all power supply outputs together - and cause no damage. What is the largest load? A short circuit draws the maximum current. And every power supply can be shorted without damage. A load will not damage any properly designed supply.

How to know a supply is overloaded? It will still boot and run the computer. But DC voltage measurements on any one red, orange, yellow, and purple wires (power supply to motherboard) will quickly determine - without any doubt - if a supply can handle the load. A measurement taken when the system is multitasking to complex graphics (ie a movie), sound card (loud), downloading from the internet, reading a CD, searching the hard drive, etc - multitasking to all. Then a multimeter says a power supply is 100% defective (too small or electrically failing maybe three months from now) or says the supply is perfectly fine. Says so definitely - without doubt.

Those 120 mm fans are near zero power conumers.

A 350 watt supply says the same supply provided by many responsible manufacturers is maybe 245 watts. Don't let them play specmanship games. As a video card manufacturer, I would recommend a 600 watt supply because so many supplies are so crappy. Because it costs me nothing. And because a larger 600 watt numbers increases sales by saying to so many that the video card must be better.

Your only valid source of confirmation is measuring with a multimeter or Kil-A-Watt.

[Triton05]

Re: UPS question

Were getting side tracked here. Im fine with my PSU size :) that wasnt my issue. I don't have any "computer issues".

My question " Should I match a UPS to my PC's max power output "

If my max load gaming or what ever pulls close to 400 watts, should I then invest in a UPS that is rated for 400watts+

If I have a 600 watt power supply, then theoretically, I have the ability if I had enough hardware to pull 600 watts thru my cord.

Would it be safe to assume I need a UPS rated for that output.

Thats all. Sorry if anything I said made that more confusing then it should be.

[westom]

Re: UPS question

Were getting side tracked here. Im fine with my PSU size :) that wasnt my issue. I don't have any "computer issues".

Power supply issues tells you, again, which one is posting from extensive knowledge. For example, which is saying what to do, with numerous reasons why, and with extensive background information.

Anyone with zero electrical knowledge can make a recommendation. A majority will do just that. But the one who says power supplies cannot be damaged by the load and also says why is then the minority who first learned before posting.

What is the most importing conclusion you should have first made? Who is posting solutions *with numbers*. That says which answer is based in facts - not based in urban myths.

Described is how much a typicaly computer consumes. No where near 600 watts. Described is how to calculate the load. Described is what you can do to confirm these posts. Described is a serous problems with plug-in UPSes - routinely designed to be a cheap as possible and therefore have a three year life expectancy. Described with numberse is how to size a UPS to minimized that degrading problem. Described are irrelevant numbers such as the video card's 350 watt number- if it was consuming that much your skin would burn off. And described is a warning about problems created by power factor; something to confirm by veiwing computer manufacturer's numerics specifications.

You question was answered using something that only the fewest provided - reasons why with numbers. How to increase those numbers for additional safety margins. And what to ignore because you did not need it and because others are even recommending things only available in a $500+ UPS.

You see that post that most confused you? That first post answered your question. Why do I post so many long posts? Just providing a short example of the knowledge that was behind that post -that answered your qeustion completely. Your 600 watt supply is typically consumering about 200 watts. So you assume 350 watts. Which means a 500 watt UPS - maybe for $80 - is more than sufficient.

[Triton05]

Re: UPS question

For the sake of argument. If I were to buy a UPS that has an output of 500watts and my computer tried to draw more then that. What would happen?

Would the UPS be destroyed? would my PC be damanged.

I want to know ;)

[westom]

Re: UPS question

If I were to buy a UPS that has an output of 500watts and my computer tried to draw more then that. What would happen?

It would act just like it will three years later when the battery degrades. If it switches to battery power, it would simply shut off. It would power normally when it connects the load directly to AC mains.

A UPS has two modes of operation. Load connected directly to AC mains. Or load connected to battery.
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No brownout or power off causes hardware damage. No overloading of a UPS or computer power supply causes damage to the UPS, supply, or load. When something is overloaded, its voltage starts to drop. (Overloaded or defective supplies work normally in a computer and can be identified only using a volt meter). If the overloading increases, then electronics simply powers off.<o:p></o:p>
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Only damage is to unsaved data. If data is not saved, then that unsaved damage is destroyed