EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

[Norm74656]

I'm currently trying to get a system that I just built working properly and I'm having serious stability issues that appear to be memory related.

The hardware includes consists of a Gigabyte Ex58-Extreme (using the latest F7 Bios), an Intel Boxed Core I7 950, an OCZ triple channel 6 GB memory kit (OCZ3X1600LV6GK), a GeForce 9800GT, an OCZ 850watt PSU (OCZ850GXSSLI), a Pioneer SATA DVD burner, a Segate 7200.12 500gb in a Lian-Li PC-A6010 case.

Over a three day period I was able to load Vista Ultimate x64, the Gigabyte drivers and applications CD, plus pretty much all the applications that I usually use on most of my systems all without any noticeable problems. The system did hang and become unresponsive once when I was running but after a cold boot I was able to rerun Microsoft Update and it finished without any further problems. However, I noticed if I ran more than a couple applications or tried to copy any significant amount of data to or from the system it would stall / hang and become unresponsive.

To try and narrow down the problem I started by running Memtest86+ 3.5 but it only got 7% of the way through the first pass when Memtest apparently hung without reporting any bad memory.

At first I was using the bios optimized defaults for all setting including the memory but on the advice of OCZ support I used the Intelligent Tweaker to set the XMP profile to 1 and made sure that the memory voltage matched OCZ's specs.

After a whole bunch of trial and error tests I discovered that any single stick of this memory will work in any single slot (1, 3 or 5) and test fine in multiple passes of MemTest86. However if I add a second stick to any of the other two available slots MemTest86 will get 7 to 10 percent done and the system will reboot itself.

On further advice from OCZ I tried changing the system memory multiplier to 10x and running the memory at 1333 and this made no noticeable difference in this problem.

I just don't understand how each individual stick can test good but add a second stick that tests good by itself and there's a problem. Can anyone supply any idea's about why this is and on how to get this working?

- Norm

[Nickel020]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

This is probably a board issue, maybe the board is defective.

If the optimized defaults don't work with the RAM at SPD speeds but the RAM tests fine individually then the issue is usually board related. It could be the CPU with it's integrated memory controller but defective CPUs are extremely rare.

I also just read something that F7 BIOS can cause problems, maybe try an earlier version or one of the F8x beta veriosn found in the Stasio's sticky thread.

[justinanderson]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

To try and narrow down the problem I started by running Memtest86+ 3.5 but it only got 7% of the way through the first pass when Memtest apparently hung without reporting any bad memory.

...

After a whole bunch of trial and error tests I discovered that any single stick of this memory will work in any single slot (1, 3 or 5) and test fine in multiple passes of MemTest86. However if I add a second stick to any of the other two available slots MemTest86 will get 7 to 10 percent done and the system will reboot itself.

I am seeing the exact same problems (hang at 7% with triple channel, reboot around 10% with dual, works fine with one) with a different setup (ex58-ud3r, 920, ocz gold 3x2gb 1600, corsair 750w, 9800 GTX+, antec 300 case).

I've already replaced the mobo and switched to a different brand of RAM (original was G.Skill), but I'm still seeing the exact same behavior. All RAM passes memtest, and I'm guessing two bad boards in a row with the exact same problem is extremely unlikely.

This is my first time building my own machine. Do I need to tweak voltages to make this work, or could it be that my is CPU bad?

[Norm74656]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

I read the sticky that RMA discussion is banned so I hope it's safe to say that based on these odd problems I'd RMA'd this board but it was returned to me and the result was that no problems were detected in testing.

I've been corresponding with Gigabyte technical support but for better or worse it seems to be a matter of policy that any memory that's over 1066mhz is considered "Overclocking" and if it doesn't work there's nothing to be done.

Since the issue seems to be with the memory I've been trying to get the support technician to supply me with the part number of a known good guaranteed to work 6gb memory kit but he (or she) will not make a commitment. I've looked at the QVL list but it's very odd that many of the modules listed (that are supposed to be 6gb kits) are not available here in the US or they turn out to be single modules (have to buy three individual modules that weren't tested together) or dual channel kits.

I will try the F8 bios which I just discovered to see if that makes any difference. But if that fails can anyone supply me with the part number for a known good memory kit.

Thanks,

- Norm

[Nickel020]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

If the board was tested and returned as not being defective then it is either the CPU (which is unlikely), it's a compatability issue or a setting problem. You both do not mention whether you tried the RAM at 1066, which is the speed that the Core i7 memory controller is rated at. Anything higher is not guaranteed to run and considered by Intel to be overclocking.
Do you have X.M.P. enabled in BIOS? If yes disable this to have the RAM run at the SPD speed of 1066 and see if that runs. If that works then the problem is that the settings form the X.M.P. profile are unstable in triple channel mode.

[justinanderson]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

My board wasn't tested by Gigabyte, only replaced by Newegg. I'd bet they don't do any testing.

OCZ Gold 3x2GB RAM, while not on Gigabyte's list of verified RAM, is successfully used by several people in reviews of the EX58-UD3R on Newegg, and at speeds higher than 1066.

XMP isn't available as an option to me, so I'm guessing my RAM doesn't even support that feature. I've tried running at the fail-safe defaults, (sets RAM to 1066 7-7-7-16, under-clocks cpu to 2ghz) with no improvement.

No chance this could be a voltage issue?

[Nickel020]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

You can try increasing the RAM voltage to ~ 1.65V which is probably what the RAM is rated for. But i doubt that it will fix the problem. Try updating the BIOs with only one or sticks isnerted so the system is stable.
I have the UD3R myself and it's running fine with the Platinum 1600 that the OP has. He has a different board but that RAM is quite popular and I have read about people using it with the Extreme without problems. There seem to be different revisions of the RAM so maybe that is a problem...
Since you also tried G.Skill RAM before I'd say that compatability is unlikely to be the problem here. For the OP the problem [I]may /I] be the F7 BIOS, maybe your problem is an unstable BIOS too.

[Norm74656]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

If the board was tested and returned as not being defective then it is either the CPU (which is unlikely), it's a compatability issue or a setting problem. You both do not mention whether you tried the RAM at 1066, which is the speed that the Core i7 memory controller is rated at. Anything higher is not guaranteed to run and considered by Intel to be overclocking.
Do you have X.M.P. enabled in BIOS? If yes disable this to have the RAM run at the SPD speed of 1066 and see if that runs. If that works then the problem is that the settings form the X.M.P. profile are unstable in triple channel mode.

I had XMP enabled in the Bios but I've switched that off and had the System Memory Multiplier first down to 10 and now down to 8 and MemTest86 still does the exact same thing: any single stick in any slot (1, 3 or 5) tests good in multiple passes but add a second stick to any other slot and the test gets 7 to 10 percent done and the system reboots.

Fyi, I just flashed to the latest F8g bios and that made no difference in regards to this problem and before doing the tests at 1066mhz I reloaded the optimized defaults to undo any manual tweaks that had previously been made. Not that it would affect MemTest86 but I tried disabling multi-threading. Then I set the QPI Clock Ratio to Slow and Performance Enhance to Standard and MemTest86 still rebooted the system on tests with two sticks.

- Norm

[justinanderson]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

You can try increasing the RAM voltage to ~ 1.65V which is probably what the RAM is rated for. But i doubt that it will fix the problem. Try updating the BIOs with only one or sticks isnerted so the system is stable.
...
For the OP the problem [I]may /I] be the F7 BIOS, maybe your problem is an unstable BIOS too.

You're right, my OCZ Gold is rated for 1.65, and increasing to that voltage made no difference. My board came with the FB BIOS which I'm assuming from Gigabyte's website is the latest version.

[Nickel020]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

Well do try other BIOS versions, both of you. The latest releases aren't always the best ones, and sometimes memory compatability in BIOS versions is like a rollercoaster ride: One version is fine, next one breaks it, then one after that is again fine.

Also Lsdmeasap is back in action and he knows more about i7 settings than I do, maybe send him a PM or something and ask him nicely to help out :)

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

Did you say FB as in b BIOS?

I DO Suggest you try the latest, I actually suggest you use the latest Beta BIOS F8g. You can get that here >>

http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/gigabyte-latest-bios-28441/

Please read this guide if you are unsure about ANYTHING to do with flashing your BIOS, and please DO NOT use @BIOS >>

http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/bios-flashing-how-qflash-guide-27576/

Do you know what IC's are in those ram sticks? That may be the whole issue, several boards/BIOS's were not compatible with Elpida Hyper IC chips and some of the OCZ have these. So using the latest BIOS would rule this out for sure.

If you still have issues after updating your BIOS please give us your full settings and we can try to help

Sorry, I just re-read this. You are using F8g now? Good, please give me the settings in full that you are trying to use that fail and I will advise back some things for you to try out >>>

This is Just a template I use to ask people their settings, pay no attention to the numbers in it, replace with yours

0X00000050 << Incorrect Memory Timing/Freq or Uncore Multi
0X00000124 << Incorrect QPI/Vtt Voltage (To Much/Not Enough)
0X00000101 << Not enough Vcore Voltage

CPU = Model #
Motherboard = Model, Revision #
BIOS Version =
Ram = Brand, Model#, Part#, And or Link

[B]Advanced CPU Features:[/B]
CPU Clock Ratio ................................ [20x]
Intel(R) Turbo Boost Tech .................. [Enabled]
CPU Cores Enabled ............................ [All]
CPU Multi Threading .......................... [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) ................... [Disabled]
C3/C6/C7 State Support .................... [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor ......................... [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function ............................ [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology ................... [Enabled] << Disabled if you do not use Vmware or Virtual PC Programs
Bi-Directional PROCHOT ..................... [Enabled]


[B]Uncore & QPI Features:[/B]
QPI Link Speed .............................. x36
Uncore Frequency ..........................  (Always 2x memory Multi or 2x +1)
Isonchronous Frequency ..................[Enabled]


[B]Standard Clock Control:[/B]
Base Clock (BCLK) Control ................ [Enabled]
BCLK Frequency (MHz) .....................
PCI Express Frequency (MHz) ........... [100]

C.I.A.2 [Disabled]

[B]Advanced Clock Control:[/B]
CPU Clock Drive ..............................[800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ................... [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew ............................. [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew ............................. [0ps]


[B]Advanced DRAM Features:[/B]
Performance Enhance ...................... [Standard]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) ......... [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) ........ [AUTO]
DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) .......... [Manual]

[B]Channel A + B + C

Channel A Timing Settings:[/B]
##Channel A Standard Timing Control##
CAS Latency Time ......................
tRCD .......................................
tRP .........................................
tRAS .......................................

##Channel A Advanced Timing Control##
tRC ........................................  (Should be = tRAS + tRP or above for stability)
tRRD .......................................
tWTR ...................................... (Must be Write to Read Delay/Same Rank - (tWL + 4)
tWR ........................................
tWTP .......................................
tWL ........................................   (tWTP Must = tWR + tWL + 4)(tWL Must be CAS Latency -1)
tRFC .......................................
tRTP .......................................
tFAW ......................................
Command Rate (CMD) ................

##Channel A Misc Timing Control##
Round Trip Latency ...................



[B]Advanced Voltage Control:

CPU[/B]
Load Line Calibration ................. [Disabled]
CPU Vcore ...............................
QPI/VTT Voltage 1.150v ............
CPU PLL 1.800v .......................

[B]MCH/ICH[/B]
PCIE 1.500v ...........................
QPI PLL 1.100v .......................
IOH Core 1.100v .....................
ICH I/O 1.500v .......................
ICH Core 1.1v ........................

[B]DRAM[/B]
DRAM Voltage 1.500v ..............
DRAM Termination 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-A Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-B Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-C Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-A Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-B Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-C Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]

[Norm74656]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

Yes, I'm using the latest available (non-beta) bios that was listed in the Bios sticky which appears to be F8g.

Sorry too late ;-), I'm so used to flashing my Bios on Asus boards using Asus update (in 10 years never had a bad flash) and since the EX58-Extreme is billed as having dual backup bios in case of a bad flash that I never thought twice about it and just used the @BIOS and it worked just fine. (of course I was only running the system with a single 2gb stick)

I honestly don't have a clue what IC's are in this OCZ 6gb kit, the product page can be found here: but it doesn't list that as part of the specs. I will get on the phone to OCZ again tomorrow and ask them if this kit uses those IC's and see what they say.

Looking at the information that you are asking for, I don't see where to get those first three numbers:

0X00000050 << Incorrect Memory Timing/Freq or Uncore Multi
0X00000124 << Incorrect QPI/Vtt Voltage (To Much/Not Enough)
0X00000101 << Not enough Vcore Voltage

 CPU = Model # Boxed Core i7 950
Motherboard = Model, Revision # EX58- Extreme Rev 1 (isn't there only 1 rev of this?)
BIOS Version = F8g
[COLOR=Black] Ram = OCZ [/COLOR][FONT=arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=Black]OCZ3X1600LV6GK [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[B]Advanced CPU Features:[/B]
CPU Clock Ratio ................................ [23x]
Intel(R) Turbo Boost Tech .................. [Enabled]
CPU Cores Enabled ............................ [All]
CPU Multi Threading .......................... [Disabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) ................... [Enabled]
C3/C6/C7 State Support .................... [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor ......................... [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function ............................ [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology ................... [Enabled]
Bi-Directional PROCHOT ..................... [Enabled]


[B]Uncore & QPI Features:[/B]
QPI Link Speed .............................. 4.8ghz
Uncore Frequency ..........................  2133mhz
Isonchronous Frequency ..................[Enabled]


[B]Standard Clock Control:[/B]
Base Clock (BCLK) Control ................ [Disabled]
BCLK Frequency (MHz) .....................133mhz
PCI Express Frequency (MHz) ........... [Auto]

C.I.A.2 [Disabled]

[B]Advanced Clock Control:[/B]
CPU Clock Drive ..............................[800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ................... [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew ............................. [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew ............................. [0ps]


[B]Advanced DRAM Features:[/B]
Performance Enhance ...................... [Turbo] <-- this is the default set by load optimized defaults and I've set this to standard with no improvement
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) ......... [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) ........ [AUTO] 1066
DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) .......... [Auto]

Pleas note that while getting these settings I only had a single stick in

[B]Channel A + B + C

Channel A Timing Settings:[/B]
##Channel A Standard Timing Control##
CAS Latency Time ...................... 7
tRCD ....................................... 7
tRP ......................................... 7
tRAS ....................................... 16
##Channel A Advanced Timing Control##
tRC ........................................  27
tRRD ....................................... 4
tWTR ...................................... 4
tWR ........................................ 8
tWTP .......................................19
tWL ........................................ 7
tRFC ....................................... 60
tRTP ....................................... 4
tFAW ...................................... 16
Command Rate (CMD) ................ 1

##Channel A Misc Timing Control##
Round Trip Latency ................... 47



[B]Advanced Voltage Control:

CPU[/B]
Load Line Calibration ................. [Disabled]
CPU Vcore ............................... 1.16875v
QPI/VTT Voltage 1.150v ............ 1.2v
CPU PLL 1.800v ....................... 1.800v

[B]MCH/ICH[/B]
PCIE 1.500v ........................... 1.500v
QPI PLL 1.100v ....................... 1.100v
IOH Core 1.100v ..................... 1.100v
ICH I/O 1.500v ....................... 1.100v
ICH Core 1.1v ........................ 1.100v

[B]DRAM[/B]
DRAM Voltage 1.500v .............. 1.500v
DRAM Termination 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-A Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-B Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-C Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-A Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-B Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-C Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]

Thanks,

- Norm

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

The BIOS Sticky are Beta's, especially ones that have a letter after the name. I just posted the latest Beta for the Extreme on that thread, it is F8I. If Stasio has not update the first post with it look for my post on the last page of the thread.

You have been warned, please DO NOT USE @BIOS.

I'd say to go ahead and try out the latest beta I mention above because they added in some more memory compatibility and performance enhancements to it.

Sorry, those first three #'s are BSOD Codes. When you get a BSOD if you see one of those codes for example 0X00000101 you need more Vcore

I see you are using Auto memory multi and Uncore, this could be part of your issues. Please set these manually. Uncore should always be 2x Memory multi or above

You are way underclocking your ram, did you know this? If you did, why? If you didn't ok, let me know and I will advise back. I can't advise now though without knowing why you are using the settings you are, I mean if you intended that I don't want to advise against it without knowing your intentions.

If you would like full stock settings per your hardware suggested let me know and I will suggest them, what you are using now is not stock per your hardware.

Ohh and on your memory subtimings, are you setting all those or is that what you see on the left for Auto settings? Just want to be sure before I advise you next time around

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

Sorry, I know you have been waiting a while for help here. So I will post stock suggested settings for your setup anyway, that way if that is what you are interested in you will have it and not have to wait on me.

One sec if you are reading this now, I am editing in settings here

Stock settings per your memory and CPU

Advanced CPU Features:
CPU Clock Ratio ................................ [23x]
Intel(R) Turbo Boost Tech .................. [Enabled]
CPU Cores Enabled ............................ [All]
CPU Multi Threading .......................... [Disabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) ................... [Enabled] << Disable if you want to disable Intel Speedstep (CPU Run at Full Ghz always)
C3/C6/C7 State Support .................... [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor ......................... [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function ............................ [Disabled] << Disable if you want to disable Intel Speedstep (CPU Run at Full Ghz always)
Virtualization Technology ................... [Enabled] << Disable if you do not use VmWare or Virtual Machines
Bi-Directional PROCHOT ..................... [Enabled]


Uncore & QPI Features:
QPI Link Speed .............................. x36 x44 x48 (You may use either of the 3 at stock Blck 133, keep under 8GT/s) x36 or x44 would be easier for you most likely though. Stock would be x36
Uncore Frequency .......................... 2x ram multiplier or 2x +1 or above. Must always be at least 2x ram multi though, so if using 12 ram multi as below set this to 24-25
Isonchronous Frequency ..................[Enabled]


Standard Clock Control:
Base Clock (BCLK) Control ................ [Disabled]
BCLK Frequency (MHz) .....................133mhz
PCI Express Frequency (MHz) ........... [100]

C.I.A.2 [Disabled]

Advanced Clock Control:
CPU Clock Drive ..............................[800mV]
PCI Express Clock Drive ................... [900mV]
CPU Clock Skew ............................. [0ps]
IOH Clock Skew ............................. [0ps]


Advanced DRAM Features:
Performance Enhance ...................... [Turbo] Use standard for now, you can set Turbo or Extreme later after you get stable
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P) ......... [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD) ........ [x12] = 1600Mhz
DRAM Timing Selectable (SPD) .......... [Manual]

Pleas note that while getting these settings I only had a single stick in

Channel A + B + C

Channel A Timing Settings:
##Channel A Standard Timing Control##
CAS Latency Time ...................... 8
tRCD ....................................... 8
tRP ......................................... 8
tRAS ....................................... 24
##Channel A Advanced Timing Control##
tRC ........................................ 27 << Set Auto
tRRD ....................................... 4 << Set Auto
tWTR ...................................... 4 << Set Auto
tWR ........................................ 8 << Set Auto
tWTP .......................................19 << Set Auto
tWL ........................................ 7 << Set Auto
tRFC ....................................... 60 << Set Auto or at least 82-88, can try lower later on like 72-80
tRTP ....................................... 4 << Set Auto
tFAW ...................................... 16 << Set Auto
Command Rate (CMD) ................ 1

##Channel A Misc Timing Control##
Round Trip Latency ................... 47 << Set Auto



Advanced Voltage Control:

CPU
Load Line Calibration ................. [Disabled]
CPU Vcore ............................... 1.16875v
QPI/VTT Voltage 1.150v ............ 1.2v << You will need to find your CPU's own stable voltage here, but normally for 1600Mhz ram and X36-x44 QPI 1.28-1.42 would be good here
CPU PLL 1.800v ....................... 1.800v

MCH/ICH
PCIE 1.500v ........................... 1.500v
QPI PLL 1.100v ....................... 1.100v
IOH Core 1.100v ..................... 1.100v << May need 1.14-1.24
ICH I/O 1.500v ....................... 1.100v
ICH Core 1.1v ........................ 1.100v

DRAM
DRAM Voltage 1.500v .............. 1.500v << Set 1.64-1.66
DRAM Termination 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-A Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-B Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-C Data VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-A Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-B Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]
Ch-C Address VRef. 0.750v [AUTO]

[Norm74656]

Re: EX58-Extreme Memory Issues

Okay, from now on I'll use the flash drive method.

I'll try the F8i version asap, it's hard to tell from just a day of very limited testing but it seems like even with a single stick and the system set to optimized defaults there are more stability issues than there were before. Easy Tune 6 keeps crashing on startup which it did not previously do and I tried downloading the latest version from QB and it won't install, something about a corrupt MSI file and the system hung on shutdown last night which it has not done before.

I'm glad to say that my system has never presented a BSOD, it generally just freezes / becomes unresponsive with the mouse cursor changed to busy (formerly hourglass mode) and while the mouse still moves I can't click on anything nor can I bring up the task manager with Alt-Ctrl-Del. And letting it sit like that for hours does nothing it just stays stuck.

I'll try setting Auto memory multi and Uncore manually and see what happens.

I had set the System Memory Multiplier to run at 1066mhz because the Gigabyte Support Rep said "The CPU's memory controller is only guaranteed to work at 1066mhz, anything over that is overclocking and if it doesn't work we can't help you" so I set that just to see if it helped the problem which it has not.

As far as the memory subtimings, they are set to auto and what I provided is what I saw on the left.

I will follow your instructions and make those settings changes and see what happens.

- Norm