Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

24-hr Memtest86+ v2.11 passed with no errors. So, I think I may have found my configuration. I'll be doing a 24-hr prime95 blend test next, which I don't have much worry about since the CPU is still at stock speed.

Huge thanks to everyone who posted for their help and support!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Looks good! You will get better performance if you set you advanced timings manually though, just so you know.

Auto often gives them a little leeway which hinders performance. If you need suggested timings to try to work on let me know

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Looks good! You will get better performance if you set you advanced timings manually though, just so you know.

Auto often gives them a little leeway which hinders performance. If you need suggested timings to try to work on let me know

Well, I decided to see how far my CPU would go on stock voltage (1.25000V in BIOS) and 400MHz FSB using that configuration, since I'd otherwise just be leaving potential performance on the table at this point. Overclocking the FSB already made it so that VID changes from C1E/Speedstep didn't have any effect, so I figured I might as well go for it.

I'm happy to report that it appears to be fine running at 3.60GHz, the max possible with its 9.0x multiplier cap. Idle temps increased a bit to ~39C, and under long-term Prime95 load it's ~57C, which seems reasonable. The C1E & Speedstep multiplier changes still work, so it idles at 2.40GHz and ramps up to 3.60GHz under load, but it's just always at ~1.20V vcore (as reported by CPU-Z v1.50). It passed a 24-hr prime95 blend test perfectly in that setup, and I couldn't be more pleased.

So, all that's left now would be dialing in the advanced memory timings!

What would you suggest as a starting point, lsdmeasap?

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Sounds very good man! And nice temps to boot!

Give me your final settings you settled with, and I will advise back about tackling your memory settings

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Sounds very good man! And nice temps to boot!

Give me your final settings you settled with, and I will advise back about tackling your memory settings

I'm glad those temperatures are good. I wasn't sure what a reasonable range would be.

Here are the final settings I'm using.

Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio .......................: 9x
Fine CPU Clock Ratio...................: +0.0
CPU Frequency .........................: 3.60GHz

Clock Chip Control 
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control.................: Enable
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 400
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ...........: 100

C.I.A.2 ...............................: Disabled

Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive........................: 800mV
PCI Express Clock Drive................: 900mV
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps

DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance....................: Standard
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)........: Disabled
(G)MCH Frequency Latch.................: Auto
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.66D
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ................: 1066
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: Manual

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.......................: 5
tRCD ..................................: 5
tRP'...................................: 5
tRAS...................................: 15

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...................................: Auto
tWTR...................................: Auto
tWR....................................: Auto
tRFC...................................: Auto
tRTP...................................: Auto
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: Auto

Driving Strength Profiles
Driving Strength ......................: 1066

Channel A
Static tRead Value.....................: 7
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: Auto

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: Auto

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
DDR Write Training.....................: Auto

Channel B
Static tRead Value.....................: 7
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: Auto

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: Auto

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
DDR Write Training.....................: Auto

Motherboard Voltage Control
Voltage Type...........................: Manual

CPU---------------------Normal-----------Current

Load Line Calibration..................: Disabled
CPU Vcore...............1.25000V.......: 1.25000V
CPU Termination.........1.200V.........: 1.200V
CPU PLL.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
CPU Reference...........0.760V.........: Auto

MCH/ICH
MCH Core................1.100V.........: 1.100V
MCH Reference...........0.760V.........: Auto
MCH/DRAM Reference......0.900V.........: Auto
ICH I/O.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
ICH Core................1.100V.........: 1.100V

DRAM
DRAM Voltage............1.800V.........: 2.100V
DRAM Termination........0.900V.........: Auto
Channel A Reference.....0.900V.........: Auto
Channel B Reference.....0.900V.........: Auto

Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3..................: Disabled
No-Execute Memory Protect..............: Enabled
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: Enabled
C2/C2E State Support...................: Enabled
x C4/C4E State Support.................: Enabled
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ............: Enabled
CPU EIST Function......................: Enabled
Virtualization Technology..............: Disabled

[Outer Marker]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Nice! Looks like the settings in my template posted here http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/stab...oltages-30561/ have been validated. That's great news. Looks like you're seeing the same excellent temperatures that I am from this E8400 beast. I see in your signature that you're RAID 0. I might try that now... RAID scares me... off into the unknown we go!

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Nice! Looks like the settings in my template posted here http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/stab...oltages-30561/ have been validated. That's great news. Looks like you're seeing the same excellent temperatures that I am from this E8400 beast. I see in your signature that you're RAID 0. I might try that now... RAID scares me... off into the unknown we go!

Yeah, I was surprised I could even leave MCH voltage at 1.100V! It's great, as I am resistant to overvolting anyway. It makes me worry about reduced component lifespan.

No need to fear the RAID. I've used RAID-0 on my main systems for several years. It's not a problem as long as you back stuff up regularly, which everyone should really be doing anyway, whether or not you're using RAID-0! Also, I've yet to have a RAID-0 array fail on me (knock on wood!). On my home file server I use a 4-disk RAID-5 setup (4x 500GB, so 1.5TB usable with 500GB parity), and I back up anything important to that.

RAID-0 is a nice way to get a hefty disk bandwidth boost from a pair of smaller, cheaper drives. With the two 80GB disks I only have 160GB total on my main system, but it's plenty of working space for games and any projects. If you want to install your OS directly to the array there's the small extra step of slipstreaming the drivers into your installation CD (or using a floppy during install), but it's really a minor thing compared to the benefit.

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Well, I couldn't leave it alone. Those silly plastic push-pin mounts of the stock Q6600 heatsink seemed kind of flimsy. I figured they were both less secure, and also don't apply as much pressure as might be beneficial. I ordered a Thermaright LGA 775 "Bolt-Thru Kit" to replace them, which arrived today.

Well, while I had system disassembled tonight to install the new heatsink mount I figured I might as well lap the processor's integrated heat spreader. I lapped it down to the copper ending at 1000 grit. I'd recently done this with an old Opteron 170, and felt bold enough to now do it with my new chip. The surface of the Q6600 heatsink was already very flat, which is good, as I couldn't lap it due to the permanent mounting bracket that's attached.

So far my Prime95 load temps (at 3.6GHz) are hovering around 53-54C after about 30 minutes, so down about 3 degrees from the previous temps, and that's before the new application of Arctic Silver 5 has cured. Yay for cooler-running overclocked processors!

I highly recommend that Thermalright bolt-thru kit. It's a huge improvement from the annoying stock Intel solution; much more secure and likely higher compression force between the heatsink and the processor.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Ya, Those ThermalRight Bolt thru kits are good! I use them in my Water cooling setups. They also stop the boards from flexing which is another plus aside from the great pressure you can apply with them

I do use my own bolts thru them though, with the stock holes drilled out. Just so I can use my own bolts and thumbscrews though

If you need help with all those Auto's let me know

I recommend you try out some TX-2 Thermal Paste, you will like it for several reasons.....

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

If you need help with all those Auto's let me know

I did some experimenting with MemTest running (the Windows program from HCI Design) while slowly tightening down timings using MemSet v4.0. I found the point at which errors or lockups/reboots occurred, and recorded the lowest "safe" value for each. I ended up with these:

tRRD: 4
tWTR: 10
tWR (aka Write to Precharge Delay): 10
tRFC: 46
tRTP: 4
Command Rate: 2

I also did some experimenting, and it turns out the values set in the BIOS are different than what are actually used, but not in the same way as your memory guide. I get the following offsets (with the F7 BIOS):

tWTR: +8 actual vs. BIOS
tWR: +8 actual vs. BIOS
tRTP: +2 actual vs. BIOS

In any case, I've set the timings in BIOS such that they correctly result in the most aggressive "safe" numbers I listed above, and will now test overnight with Memtest86+ v2.11.

Lsdmeasap, please let me know if those settings above look off or unreasonable somehow. I'm going with the "get everything as low as possible" philosophy. If there are any interdependencies in those settings that I'm unwittingly messing up such that bandwidth and/or latency might be negatively affected, give me a holler.

Thanks!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

ya the difference between Memset VS the BIOS varies from strap to strap and multi to multi. I think I noted that in the guide, but maybe not?

tWR and tWTR, 10. That is in Memset right, not the BIOS? Just checking because that is likely not needed to be so high in the BIOS. And actually may prove to be to low in further tests as well anyway. And tWR will need to be higher (Not equal to) tWTR, just a heads up. It may seem stable in shorter tests but will not be in the long run

tRRD, and tRTP should easily be able to run at 3, what tRD (Static tRead Value ~ Performance Level in Memset) are you using, this may be causing you issues if it is too low and throw off your other results

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

ya the difference between Memset VS the BIOS varies from strap to strap and multi to multi. I think I noted that in the guide, but maybe not?

I looked over it (the one here) and didn't see that mentioned. It does kind of make sense that it would be strap/multi dependent though.

tWR and tWTR, 10. That is in Memset right, not the BIOS?

Yeah, that's in Memset.

And tWR will need to be higher (Not equal to) tWTR, just a heads up. It may seem stable in shorter tests but will not be in the long run

Good to know! I did find around 16 errors this morning after letting Memtest86+ run overnight. I'll try running with tWR at 11 tonight and see how that works.

tRRD, and tRTP should easily be able to run at 3, what tRD (Static tRead Value ~ Performance Level in Memset) are you using, this may be causing you issues if it is too low and throw off your other results

I'm using tRD 7 right now. It was 24-hr Memtest86+ stable with all the advanced settings on auto, so I'm pretty sure it's ok.

Thanks again!

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Ahh, OK I will update that guide's font page. I know me and a member or two have discussed that in the thread, I just must have not ever updated it.

Will try to get done tomorrow as I am about to get outta here in a few.

Well since you are good on tRD 7 with all the rest on auto, then you just need to find the rest... Sounds easy doesn't it

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Ahh, OK I will update that guide's font page. I know me and a member or two have discussed that in the thread, I just must have not ever updated it.

Will try to get done tomorrow as I am about to get outta here in a few.

Well since you are good on tRD 7 with all the rest on auto, then you just need to find the rest... Sounds easy doesn't it

Well, it seems like these settings are stable (17+ hours of MemTest86+):

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...................................: 4
tWTR...................................: 2 (+8 = 10 actual in Windows)
tWR....................................: 3 (+8 = 11 actual in Windows)
tRFC...................................: 48
tRTP...................................: 2 (+2 = 4 actual in Windows)
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: 2

Using MemSet I find that tRFC starts causing errors under Windows (according to HCI's Windows MemTest app) when I pull it below 46. I was being conservative in my last test in setting 48. I suppose I could run another test overnight to see if 46 can work stably. I can't see that one adjustment making much difference at this point. Would trying to get tRRD and tRTP to 3 still be worth it?

[Dalamar]

Re: Ok, a deep breath, and some specific EP45-UD3R BIOS questions.

Well, I decided to try for the tighter timings. I also discovered something weird in the process. It appears that I can't set tRTP lower than 4, at least using the BIOS.

I had it at 2 in the BIOS previously, and that ended up as 4 actual under Windows. No problem, I just thought it was going to always add +2 to whatever I set in the BIOS. Oddly, even if I reduce the BIOS setting to 1, tRTP still shows up in MemSet under Windows as 4, meaning it's now adding +3, and all I did was try to change that one BIOS setting.

Anyway, I verified these settings stable for 22 hours of MemTest86+

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...................................: 3
tWTR...................................: 2 (+8 = 10 actual in Windows)
tWR....................................: 3 (+8 = 11 actual in Windows)
tRFC...................................: 46
tRTP...................................: 1 (+3 = 4 actual in Windows)
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: 2

I'm pretty happy at this point. Here's the full configuration currently. Does anyone see any remaining areas that would be worth fine tuning?

Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio .......................: 9x
Fine CPU Clock Ratio...................: +0.0
CPU Frequency .........................: 3.60GHz

Clock Chip Control 
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control.................: Enable
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 400
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ...........: 100

C.I.A.2 ...............................: Disabled

Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive........................: 800mV
PCI Express Clock Drive................: 900mV
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps
MCH Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0ps

DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance....................: Standard
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)........: Disabled
(G)MCH Frequency Latch.................: Auto
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.66D
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ................: 1066
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: Manual

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time.......................: 5
tRCD ..................................: 5
tRP'...................................: 5
tRAS...................................: 15

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD...................................: 3
tWTR...................................: 2 (+8 = 10 actual in Windows)
tWR....................................: 3 (+8 = 11 actual in Windows)
tRFC...................................: 46
tRTP...................................: 1 (+3 = 4 actual in Windows)
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: 2

Driving Strength Profiles
Driving Strength ......................: 1066

Channel A
Static tRead Value.....................: 7
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: Auto

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: Auto

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
DDR Write Training.....................: Auto

Channel B
Static tRead Value.....................: 7
tRD Phase0 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment..................: Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................: Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................: Auto

Trd2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank).................: Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank).................: Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank).................: Auto

Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............: Auto
DDR Write Training.....................: Auto

Motherboard Voltage Control
Voltage Type...........................: Manual

CPU---------------------Normal-----------Current

Load Line Calibration..................: Disabled
CPU Vcore...............1.25000V.......: 1.25000V
CPU Termination.........1.200V.........: 1.200V
CPU PLL.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
CPU Reference...........0.760V.........: Auto

MCH/ICH
MCH Core................1.100V.........: 1.100V
MCH Reference...........0.760V.........: Auto
MCH/DRAM Reference......0.900V.........: Auto
ICH I/O.................1.500V.........: 1.500V
ICH Core................1.100V.........: 1.100V

DRAM
DRAM Voltage............1.800V.........: 2.100V
DRAM Termination........0.900V.........: Auto
Channel A Reference.....0.900V.........: Auto
Channel B Reference.....0.900V.........: Auto

Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3..................: Disabled
No-Execute Memory Protect..............: Enabled
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: Enabled
C2/C2E State Support...................: Enabled
x C4/C4E State Support.................: Enabled
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ............: Enabled
CPU EIST Function......................: Enabled
Virtualization Technology..............: Enabled