P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

[marlin1856]

Hi all,
this is my first post so I will try to get it right. My problem is with my new ram Crucial Ballistix PC8500 and their inability to run at any speeds faster than stock...1066. I have confirmed the ram is sweet as it runs at 1230 on a friends ABIT pro. My Mobo is the DS3 rev 2.0 with bios f12, E8400 CPU @ stock as ram won't o/c. The mobo specs state DDR1066 is supported but when I look at the rev 2.1 specs it states DDR1200 @ o/c is supported. Could anyone please tell me what I need to do to bring my board up to 2.1 specs.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

What settings are you using for your ram. That 1200 you read is just "Official" support. The board you have will run 1200+ once you get the right ram (Which isnt crucial as they have many issues, themselves and with GA boards) and once you get the right settings.

Since you have tested that ram in another board, I just think you are possibly not using the correct settings on your GA board.

Copy and paste back what settings you are using>>>

Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [8]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [450]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [102]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Manual]

CAS Latency Time________________ ?
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ ?
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______?
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ ?
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ ?
Rank Write to READ Delay________ ?
Write to Precharge Delay_________ ?
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ ?
Read to Precharge Delay__________ ?
Static tRead Value_______________ 1-31
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 1-31

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.300V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.25]

[marlin1856]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Thanks for your reply, unfortunately I mailed back the ram (non tracer) and will expect a new replacement set (tracer) on Monday so I can get you a detailed list of bios settngs but for now here is what I can remember........
Also I flashed the bios to F13a which gave an extra fine CPU multiplier of 0.5 but didn't help my ram speed issue. My E8400 is @ 4.0gb and borrowed OCZ DDR800 @890 all is stable. With the DDR1066 and a mem mult 2.4 the ram runs at 1113 but crashes and when I reboot the 1066 ram shows as 800mhz, weird. I then had to force a crash to reset the bios and on reboot it reads correct again. But I did notice at 1066 the default timings were weird for example instead of 5-5-5-15 it was 4-6-6-24 or somthing close to that.


Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [445]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Auto]

CAS Latency Time________________ ?
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ ?
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______?
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ ?
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ ?
Rank Write to READ Delay________ ?
Write to Precharge Delay_________ ?
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ ?
Read to Precharge Delay__________ ?
Static tRead Value_______________ 1-31
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 1-31

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.5V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.406]<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Ahh, well 1066 ram is 800 ram by default, you have to manually set the overclock

If you want help with the ram you are using for now post your settings, if not I cant help you there. Auto is not the way to go though that is for sure, which is giving you the incorrect 444-26 timings. Auto is just to get started. And since you are overclocking Nothing should be on auto, nothing except maybe static tRead Phase adjust

You are likely to have the same or similar issues with the tracers when you get them, For starters DONT use 2.2 V the stock Voltage it is Too much even for 1066 speed. But Crucial just doesnt work good with GA unless you want to spend some time tweaking it, and even then may prove useless. I just got some Crucial Lanfests not long ago for testing and they worked fine at 800 or 1066+ at 2.1V but As I said, it does take some tweaking, and ALL things MUST be off of auto

I can also say right now, I dont know what settings you posted above for use with but +0.5V is WAY too much Voltage for either of the mentioned DDR2 rams. That is 2.3+ and is likely burning things up as I type

[marlin1856]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

I thank you for your advice as I am not very good at all this but am slowly learning. So I should get rid of the 8500 tracer ram which I am happy to do but what could I use if I wish to o/c it? or could you help me get more out of the reaper ddr800 I am running now. My current settings are ..........


Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [445]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Auto]

CAS Latency Time________________ 5
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 15
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 4
Rank Write to READ Delay________ 5
Write to Precharge Delay_________ 6
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 42
Read to Precharge Delay__________ 5
Static tRead Value_______________ 8
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.5V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.406]<!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message -->

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Well first off, I need to know the exact Reapers you have. But in general as I said above +0.5V on the DDR2 is WAY too much, and ALL reapers models 2.1 ( +0.3V ) is the specified voltage anything above is too much and voids your warranty, if you care about that. They will do over 1066 likely with only 2.1 and 5-5-5 timings no need for 2.3V at all

I will for now assume you have these 2X1gb model (which looks to have some not so great reviews! ) >>>
Newegg.com - OCZ Reaper HPC Edition 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory

I would suggest you start here for 890Mhz Start at the high setting and work your way down, testing after each ONE change

Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [445]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [manual]

CAS Latency Time__________ 5 (4 may work but if you try that use the higher settings below first)
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay______ 5 (try 4 if you want)
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay____5 Same as above Try 4
Precharge Delay (tRAS)_______ 12-15 If above is 4 try 11
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)______ 3-4
Rank Write to READ Delay_____ 3-5 Or 9-11
Write to Precharge Delay______ 3-6
Refresh to ACT Delay__________ 22-42
Read to Precharge Delay_______ 3-5
Static tRead Value____________ 7-10
Static tRead Phase Adjust______ 0

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.3V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.406]

As for the Crucial, I would RMA to the place you bought them for a refund if you still can or sell them. Ram brand choice is alot based on opinions as most all rams will do over 1000Mhz with loose timings, so your choices should be based on brands customer service, RMA policies, compatability, and Price I suppose.

Crucial have well known RMA issues (Meaning you often need to RMA your dead Ram) and also know Gigabyte/Asus Compatibility issues >>>

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.aspx?catid=83&threadid=2152033

Brands I suggest (In order of my own preferences) ......
< Mushkin
G.Skill
Geil

[marlin1856]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Sorry I should have explained earlier, you are right it is the OCZ Reaper 2 x 1gig in dual chanel.

I have spent the last cople of hours trying combinations to see if I can get the ram at higher speed but 890 is all I can get, stable with orthos and the following specs, it just will not run stable at above 890. Even 450 fsb raises the ram to 900 but orthos alarms after 2-5 seconds.


Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [445]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [2.00]
DRAM Timing Selectable_______ SPD __ [Man]

CAS Latency Time________________ 5
Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay_________ 5
Dram RAS# Precharge Delay_______5
Precharge Delay (tRAS)__________ 15
ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________ 4
Rank Write to READ Delay________ 5
Write to Precharge Delay_________ 6
Refresh to ACT Delay______________ 42
Read to Precharge Delay__________ 5
Static tRead Value_______________ 10
Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.3V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.406]<!-- / message --><!-- sig --><!-- / message --><!-- / message -->

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Do you have .5 increments in MCH? If so try 1.5V mch, if not try 2

Also, try 9-11 for rank write to read delay. Could be that ram dont like to overclock much. I did see that in several of the reviews for it

Are you sure you need that much CPU voltage? I thought the new 45nm cpu's used less then that to reach 4.0Ghz, I have seen some reaching 3.8 on stock vcore. So it is possible to much vcore is making a error as well.

Have you tried dropping down to 8 Multi and try from there with a different FSB? That could help as well

[marlin1856]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Again you were right, I have dropped the vcore from 1.4 to 1.3v and seems ok, will test more tomorow. But with the options you said still no luck with the ram. From your experience could you recomend a ram model that I should have more luck with o/cing as I seem to have chosen the reaper and ballistix which both won't work well with my mobo. As a last resort I could always change motherboards.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Well Orthos does not only test the ram, it is CPU (Small or Large FFt's) or blend which is cpu and ram. That is what made me think of maybe your CPU as well

Did or do you do ram testing with Memtest86+ ? This will test your RAM ONLY so you can see maybe better what the issue is. If so how does Test # 2 and # 5 do? App is here incase you do not have a copy >>>
Memtest86+ - Advanced Memory Diagnostic Tool


Also, what is your CPU temps, what cooler are you using as this has some effect as well. And how hot is your NB as soon as you shut off your PC feel it

Well man, The 3 I mention above do great, I can personally vouch for Mushkin Alot of different models overclock very well, And some of the G.Skills models as well

I am using Mushkin Model 996576 right now, and run them at 444-10/12 up to 900, and 544-X up and over 1000 just fine. I have used Several Different Mushkins sets in different GA boards all did just great, even the EM cheap mushkins. But your better ones are the Blue or Black models

And hey, Ram isnt a "Click to overclock" type of thing, you have to work long, and usually hard the further you want to push it. So dont just give up on your board, or even that ram. it just takes some work. I sometimes spend 3-4 nights working on one timing/speed.

Best to be sure your CPU is stable where you want it first then work at the ram so you know it isnt the CPU. Or if you want The other way around. Just be sure your ram is memtest stable before even thinking of orthos.

[marlin1856]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

Not sure how to get that memtest working (little confused) I may need some guidance to get me going please.

My CPU is stable with a thermalright 120 and 120mm fan attached temps are 28 idle and don't go above 45 under load, i use 2 intake and 1 exhaust 120mm fans, a zalman 600w p/s also has a 120mm fan, my 8800GTX has a VF1000 and RH s88 with two 92mm fans under it so cooling is well and truly taken care of.

As for the NB sink it does get quite hot during PC play but after shut down it does cool down to just warm very quickly.

I am struggling trying to find Mushkin Model 996576 in Australia, but G.Skill is abundant, just not sure which model to look for.

I did get a little frustrated with my mobo last night but will persist and no doubt get it right eventually, anyway thanks for your help so far.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

What part of memtest are you having issues with? Are you using floppy or ISO download? If iso you must burn as Image with ISO app or nero, not just brun the iso file itself onto a disk, it must be burned like you would burn a XP or Vista ISO image

If that isnt the issue, please tell me what is

As for mushkins, any black set is good! And the red sets are the best, but cost the most. Blue is the Midrange models. Black or Blue either/any model would be good.

G.Skills these are good models
2 X 1GB 6400
F2-6400CL4D-2GBPK And best model is F2-6400PHU2-2GBHZ

2 X 2Gb 8500
F2-8500CL5D-4GBPK

2 x 1GB
F2-8500CL5D-2GBHK

Here's the G.Skill's naming rule (from July '06 to the present)...

Segment
G: Gaming
H: Hi-Performance
P: Performance
M: Mainstream
N: Normal

Series
Z: Zeus
A: Ace
K: King
Q: Queen
J: Jack

[dark41]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

What settings are you using for your ram. That 1200 you read is just "Official" support. The board you have will run 1200+ once you get the right ram (Which isnt crucial as they have many issues, themselves and with GA boards) and once you get the right settings.

I've been reading threads where you state Crucial memory has problems, and specifically with Gigabyte motherboards for months. I've got no idea where you get your info from, but as a system builder for over 10 years we've been using Crucial RAM with Gigabyte boards exclusively for the past several years and have never had a problem with Crucial memory compatibilty with Gigabyte boards. That's over 1000s of systems. Furthermore, every time I've run a compatibility test from Crucial or Gigabyte, both have said they are compatible.

And as for not being able to achieve 1200MHz on Gigabyte boards with Crucial Ballistix memory, here's a screen shot at 1231.2MHz to prove you wrong. In fact we've done this many times with several different Gigabyte boards from the P35-DS3P to the P35-DQ6 to the EX38-DS5 to the P45-DS3R and P45-DS3P. This is DDR2-800 Ballistix on a P35-DQ6:



Crucial Ballistix RAM is D9 chips, which are made by Micron. Micon owns Crucial. To imply that any other brand makes better D9 memory is ridiculous. Be it Giel, G-Skill, Corsair, or Mushkin, or any other brand, all D9 chips come from Micron.

The only thing that would even come close to resembling your accusations would be the fact that Crucial Ballistix DDR2 memory changed from 16-bit (double sided) dimms to 8-chip (single sided) dimms several months ago and underwent some growing pains. They have since made a revision to the 8-chip modules and are now only warrantied up to 2.0v and are completely stable.

Personally, I don't care if you like Crucial memory or not. But to insinuate that one brand of D9 chip is better with a Gigabyte board than another is just BS.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

I never said D9 by anyone else is better. I never mention D9 at all.

That images does not show Crucial by the way and is pretty old. But I dont care, you are pretty much right. I just cannot go and edit all my posts from the past it would take days

And yes, you are correct I personally do not have issues either with Crucial, but MANY others do. Mostly with P35 and older 2.2 rated Crucial's (The ones that need a few RMA's) before you decide to get the new model. Crucial has sent me some of the new models for testing which I am currently in the middle of, and have found NO issues with P35 or P45 boards. >>>

http://forums.tweaktown.com/f69/crucial-kindly-provides-samples-testing-p35-p45-28228/

Again, I never anywhere said one D9 is better then another, but there is several D9 variations which you are surely aware of, also not discussed by me. And yes I know Crucial makes them all. PCB and Chip programming also has a impact on compatibility

D9 is also 1GB only sticks, and yes I know about the switches and such. I think the main issues users used to have was the old D9MGH 2.2 sticks and those were mostly likely just users not able to find proper settings more then anything

I do for sure no longer say Crucial is not compatible at all! Works great as far as I see and have not suggested it does not for several months I believe

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: P35 DS3 and Crucial Ballistix 8500 incompatible?

One second and I will post a image of the new sets and as you said above, they will do 1200 as well



You are right for sure, I do apologize for any thing I said that may have made you offended. Like Is said in the past I was only trying to help users who seemed no matter what settings they tried still always had issues.

New crucial for sure I can say has no issues with GA Boards, Older models I am not 100% sure of, but like I said likely were just Setting issues more then anything else