ASRock Support? Really?

[Mustash]

Let me start off by saying that I really appreciate the support I have gotten from fellow users but I think I'm justifiably annoyed enough to post an open letter to ASRock buyers and Yup parsec, your post should be a sticky.

As an update I did get an answer to a question directly from ASRock Tech Support. Since then I requested a complete list of Dr. Debug codes. I really can't see the point in having the readout when the manual might give you generalities. What's the big secret?

I hope I don't offend anyone including the moderator(s).

I'm wondering why people are not screaming about this.


Greetings Fellow ASRock owners,

I recently purchased the new roll-out FMA285X extreme6 based on the excellent reviews I read.
I was unable to find much on the board other than reviews....not that surprising...the board is a really new roll-out.

My build was delayed due ridiculously slow shipping of the RAM, so I decided to do a little prep-work and some more peeking around.

I was a little surprised that ASRock referred customers here and a LOT concerned when ASRock referred customers to a site that asks for an obscure verification response and consistently gets rejected.

I became EXTREMELY CONCERNED when I noticed ASRock was referring customers to the (for cryin' out loud) dealer [their words] with other questions and worse, RMA's and repairs!

Today I ran into a post by parsec on this thread where he observed that ASRock Tech Support doesn't even exist in any meaningful way!

That SUX on SO MANY LEVELS!

Purchasers have a justifiable expectation of expert manufacturer support.
That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the input from fellow users but c'mon!
This product has some weird bugs which would certainly defeat many builders.

As it turned out I had to RMA the board.
The Win7 install kept on looping. It looked like I was getting a reset right during the last restart then I got what it think was a chipset initialization failure and a freeze. The boot order would then reset to boot from the HD. Windows would restart like it was a bad shutdown instead of recovering and completing the install.

Maybe there is a secret work-around. Anyone have a magic decoder ring?

Had known that ASRock blatantly provided no support I would have gone another way.

I wonder if they're even going to be around for the warranty period.

I really hope they straighten out this support thing. It seems when the Estreme6 works, it's a great board.

[parsec]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

I doubt very highly that the post I wrote in that support thread will or should be a sticky.

The point of my post was that thread gives the impression that the ASRock representative, Sean, is still monitoring and providing answers in that thread. "Sean" has been MIA for quite a while, although did provide help for a while. The first post in that thread, albeit from 2010, has never been changed to let people know, Sean is gone.

The problem is, people new to the forum see that thread, read the first page, and then post in it expecting a reply from "Sean". When that does not happen, what do those people think about ASR? Imagine them watching that thread for a response. So not only are those people not helped, but ASR looks bad in their eyes, rather obvious don't you think?

Updating the introduction to that thread with one or two sentences advising people to post a thread in the forum itself is all that is necessary to fix it. So Sean is gone, big deal, is that worse to report than to change nothing and put people on a path to nowhere? Or simply remove that thread, all done. THAT is the illogical and frustrating part.

A few other realities:

Most manufactures do not intend their user forum to be the main point of contact for their own support staff, which is not obvious to many people. Some companies like Corsair and OCZ do provide their own tech support in their user forums, but that is unusual.

ASR Emily does provide support in the main forum threads occasionally. That's great, but that thread at the top of the page is not where Emily can usually be found, so is still a problem IMO.

Given all the different manufacture forums I've seen, the impression I get is, in general the less said about whatever, the better. I imagine the reason is, once you say or do something, you're responsible for it. Also any action they take, such as removing a thread as I discussed, means something, it has significance and draws attention. The philosophy seems to be, "stir the pot" as little as possible, even if it is boiling over.

[profJim]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Constructive criticism is fine.
One of these decades, one or more of the main mobo manufacturers will learn that excellent and responsive tech support will pay off in the long run with customer loyalty and repeat business. I'd rather buy a slightly lesser brand or model that has top notch tech support rather than buy the "best" model that comes with unresponsive, delayed or "canned" communications from tech support.

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Well parsec here's a quote from your post to "Welcome to ASRock Support Thread". I believe that the post was made on Aug 12. 2012.
It's cut & pasted as I'm not sure I can move a quoted reply to another thread on this board.

"IMO, this thread should be closed, as it is serving no purpose, except to aggravate ASRock customers. A new sticky could be added, to instruct people how to get help in this forum, as you described in your post. Doesn't someone at ASRock know how to be courteous and show respect towards their customers? "

Again, I have no desire to to offend you nor do I expect anyone to remember every word of every post. OTOH I would resent someone "putting words in my mouth" so I refrain from doing that to others.

IMO stirring the ASR pot could benefit everyone including ASR

I don't know weather a couple of words would "fix" the ASRock Support thread but that was never my point.

Let me try to be clearer:
It seems like Tweaktown & the denizens thereof have done an admirable job of providing support to a whole lot of users.
Not only that but Tweaktown kept a thread open that ASR apparently committed to serve.

ASRock directs users to Tweaktown for support on their website.
The website also discourages users from seeking support in favor of Tweaktown from the ASRock site.

Reality Check
ASR dropped the ball in a way that implies that their users are unimportant to them and should be embarrassing to the ASR management. ASR essentially made a promise and failed to keep it.

By providing a warranty a Mfr is already on the hook to replace (or at least inspect) a product that doesn't work in the perception of the user even if there is really nothing wrong with the product other than a configuration error that could have been straightened out with timely feedback from a tech.

Providing support is not only good form it's good business.
Think about it. A simple response to a user could easily avoid an unnecessary RMA and foster good will toward the company & their products.

I agree completely with profJim's post but just because a lot of enthusiast board mfrs have marginal support doesn't mean that they all suc. It's really a matter of degree.

Let me give you an example:
Here's the response I got after my second request for a comprehensive Dr. Debug code list.

Support
6:50 PM (1 hour ago)

to me, TSD


Ed; Please put your ASRock cd in a computer and browse it > manual > bios code description is inside.

It's not on the CD, It was not in the printed user manual or the identical PDF I got from the ASR site. Nor could I find a reference to the same problem combing the forums. The code list is not posted anywhere on the net. What's in the manual are ranges of codes and a few individual codes. The best one can hope for is generalities.

Users of ASR boards frequently ask what an individual code, that is not in the manual means.

To put it nicely, the tech was less than cooperative.

The board is on it's merry RMA way because I couldn't get the confounded thing to work, despite the valiant efforts of Tweaktown people. The user base for this new board is really thin but there is a similar flavor Intel based ASR board.
It looks very much like ASR has not supported similar but more mature roll-outs like the Z77 board.


Here is the response that I got from Rosewill in just a couple of hours with a question about a $3 case fan.

Dear Valued Customer,
Thank you for contacting Rosewill Support Service.

Please be advised that the power consumption for RFA-80-RL case fan is 12VDC 0.18A.

Please feel free to contact us if you have further questions or concerns.

Thank you for choosing Rosewill.

Sincerely,

Mick

Rosewill Support Service Agent

I'm not sure Rosewill even manufactures anything. They may be relabelers but their support and responsiveness is stellar.

Have a great evening parsec.

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

That hits it dead on.

I'm still trying to get a comprehensive Dr. Debug code list outa ASR. If they give it to me I'll post it.

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

yeah,think so, I'm still trying to get a comprehensive Dr. Debug code list outa ASR. If they give it to me I'll post it.

I just sent in my third request. I'm trying to be polite but am quickly running outa patience with AST Tech.
How hard could this be?

[parsec]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Mustash, first, in case you have not seen this, is the POST error codes list supplied by American Megatrends Inc, the source of the BIOS/UEFI of our board:

http://www.ami.com/support/doc/AMIBI...e_List_PUB.pdf

ASRock does not write the UEFI code, they buy it from AMI for use with their boards. AMI defines the POST codes for their UEFI/BIOS, not ASRock. You'll find that the descriptions provided by AMI are a little more descriptive in some cases than the list found in your boards manual, which should be available for download. I found that document on the first page of a Google search for "AMI BIOS POST error codes".

Next, I don't get your apparent contempt for my post in this thread. IMO, I restated exactly what I said in my post in the infamous support thread. I do not understand at all how I contradicted your statements or disagreed with them, besides my first sentence. Otherwise, we are in agreement.

The point in my first sentence is I would not expect any manufacture or representative of them (TweakTown) to post a sticky that contains a negative statment about them. I would not be proud or satisfied to have my post in that thread as a sticky.

I would like ASRock to clear up the matter as I described in my previous post in this thread. I see no need to humiliate or disrespect them, as their actions or inaction will have consequences far more significant than a few words on a page.

My other statements about various forums is simply reality, and not a defense of ASRock. I was not saying that you are wrong or misguided.

Here's another example of why you are unhappy with this forum and its support, from the first page of the ASRock forum:

ASRock has hired a new tech support staff member just to assist you with their full range of motherboards.

Quite a promise that you feel is unfulfilled. I understand that. But is it a promise, or a guarantee? Talk is cheap, and as you know actions speak louder than words. If you and others don't receive the support they should, you won't be a customer in the future. You may suffer in the short term, but they will in the long term. Let the dollars fall where they should.

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Well Parsec,
It was not my intention to wind you up over this ASRock support issue.
Based on your response, it seems that I have.
Please accept my most sincere apologies.

I don't know where you got the impression that I found you or your post(s) contemptible.
Quite the contrary. I applaud the spirit of your post. It looked like your intention was to save users time and frustration.
Further, I appreciate your frequent, knowledgeable responses to users questions.

I also tried to make clear my appreciation of Tweaktown who seems to have made their best effort to offer a platform for tech support by ASRock.

Perhaps what I think is abundantly clear really I]isn't.[/I]

I had no idea ASRock used AMI BIOS code. The reason for that is that there is no reference in any of the ASRock publications to AMI nor is there any reference to ASRock on any AMI online resource that I found.
It's not all that surprising to me that a Google search did not connect these companies.

To make matters worse there is no way to tell if Dr. Debug's readout is an accurate indicator of anything. [see notice below from AMI]

Some motherboard manufacturers can design and build a motherboard in as quick as a month. Their production run (on a specific board design) might be less than one week. In that time they may build 100,000 boards. If sales are good, they might fix any bugs, revise (rev-up) the board, update the BIOS and do another 300,000 production run of the boards. Immediately after two or three production runs, the board is end-of-lifed. Once it's end-of-lifed, it's common practice that the board's BIOS isn't updated anymore.

A large motherboard manufacturer will also purchase the source code for the BIOS. They will employ a team of BIOS engineers. Legally, the motherboard manufacturer can't remove the AMI logo from the BIOS source code, but can hide it. They typically change the BIOS code so much that it's unrecognizable to us. This is another major reason we can't tell you what their error codes mean or how to update their motherboard's BIOS. This is also another reason why our detection software sometimes doesn't work.

Throughout this site you'll see repeated references to visit the manufacturer of your computer system or your motherboard's manufacturer for support, software drivers, BIOS updates and so on. I hope you now have a better understanding why this is so.

It may be futile trying to get the ASRock's Dr. Debug code variations from ASRock tech support.
If it is, I intend to find out why that is.

As far as a promise, maybe a better word would be commitment. To me they are one of a piece.
There is reasonable expectation on my part that ASRock was in contact with a staff member of Tweaktown with a promise [commitment] to provide technical support for ASRock products on Tweaktown, and that Tweaktown took ASRock at their word that they would perform what they committed to.
They didn't and what's worse is I'm not seeing an alternative to their tech support, which sucks.

The ASRock board I bought was guaranteed, or if you like it better, warranted, for three years. If I think its broken, I'm going to RMA the damn thing unless Tech support convinces me otherwise, which I would SO prefer for reasons I shouldn't need to explain.

I'm irritated at ASRock about what might have been an unnecessary waste of time and an inconvenience to me, the customer who spent $100+ on a board and considerably more on related hardware especially when I can get better, faster support for a $3 fan!

I'm irritated enough to express my views on tech support to upper management.

I've been in business.
Frankly I would be surprised that ASRock, as a corporate entity with the obvious intent to manufacture a quality product chose "financial suicide by tech support."
I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's an easily resolved staffing problem.

You say "talk is cheap". If that's your position why bother posting to user groups?
I think communication is critical.
That's what this is.
I've learned a lot over the years and even helped a little, which is why I choose to share my experiences.

Have a great evening.

[parsec]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Well Mustash, I seem to have read your other post wrong, or interpreted it wrong, which you should be able to tell from my response. Just FYI, I got some private feedback that I'm not the only one that interpreted your reply as you being dismayed that I changed my mind about this issue. That was my interpretation of it as well, right or wrong.

Regardless, this is no big deal whatsoever, no offense taken and I have no problem with anything, so let's throw that aside, alright? You should be able to tell I did not change my mind, I only want no part in running them down.

Regarding AMI, there are certain BIOS displays that show American Megatrends on the screen, but there are other things on the screen that grab your attention, so easily missed. I've also seen AMI shown as the BIOS in certain programs like CPU-Z.

The quotes from the AMI site are surprising to me, I thought the codes were at least fairly standard, otherwise what good are they? I find it hard to believe that many mother board manufactures change the POST codes for their own use or purposes. If they do, they put a huge responsibility on their shoulders.

Do you feel that ASR has done that? If that was true, then yes, a better detailed list would be necessary. But how would we ever know that is the case?

[- wardog -]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Just sayin' :

ASRock > FM2A85X Extreme6

- 64Mb [COLOR="#FF0000"]AMI[/COLOR] UEFI Legal BIOS with GUI support

And seeings you live in the U.S. Mustash, there's:

ASRock Technical Support
1-909-590-8308

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

There's nothing to put aside for me parsec.
I still feel the same way I did in the original post.
I'm deeply relieved that we cleared that up.
I only hope that the users that contacted you privately will read your post and stop seeing me as some 11yo throwing a tantrum.

I fully intend to contact someone at ASRock today. Either the really don't care (doubtful) or something is slipping by them. Hell it happened to AMD with their bulldozer core and it still may rip the whole company down.

That was Marketing & the head got the ax.

In my view the only reason questionable support hasn't done that to ASR (yet) is that the boards under my consideration seem to be a quality, for enthusiasts, and we are an entirely different species of animal.

Am I the only one who gets apoplectic when I get the second canned response to shuffle the memory, check your CPU, clear the CMOS etc when you've already done that as a matter of course and mentioned as much in your support request?

As far as AMI code is concerned, yup, I think there is a better than even chance that Dr. Debug's display has little to do with AMI's original specs. For one thing there are several versions.
For others, refer to what AMI has to say on the matter.

It's all in the code and AMI has understandably thrown up their hands.

So let me ask my fellow users:
Who would contact? VP of Marketing? Someone else? Do you think I'm wasting my time and yours?

Keep in mind that simply posting a comprehensive Dr.Debug code list will likely benefit any purchaser with that feature, regardless of your platform, and that better support will benefit everyone.

Have a great day and a better weekend.

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Thanks Wardog.
I haven't tried that option.

Do they speak English?

When I eventually get my RMA'd board back I'll give 'em a try if I need to.

[synack]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Check pgs 46-49 of the Z77 OC formula Manual here. There is an extensive list of Dr Debug codes there.

[kick]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Tech support.
Ive been on tweaktown on and off for 4 years now.
My experience is mainly limited to the Gigabyte and Asrock forums,the Asrock one here is comparatively new,Thats probably because Asrock used to be more oem orientated.
Sean has gone bye byes and did so very quickly after the forum launch,Emily appears every so often.
These Asrock "employees" may or may not get cash money for "working" on here, or maybe its like a post of responsibility" or something on the cv.
Gigabyte ; The main man was Lsdmeasap and when he was here , he responded rapidly to most posts.
Stasio was mainly concerned with bios updates,many of you will have seen him posting on other sites.Other manufacturer "support forums " on tweaktown Ive no idea on.
The moderators ProfJim and Wazza300 arecomputer afficionados/experts over all the forums..unpaid dogsbodys if you like.
I personally wouldnt touch the moderation with a barge pole!
I like others just post my opinions/personal experience if I think I have something helpfull and or to strut around if I get a decent clock on something.
There is also an asrock support site based in Germany,which used to be more active/tech orientated than this one.
This type of "wheres the support?" thread,Ive seen before on tweaktown.
I suppose the manufacturer links should call them communities really.

[Mustash]

Re: ASRock Support? Really?

Check pgs 46-49 of the Z77 OC formula Manual here. There is an extensive list of Dr Debug codes there.

Thanks Synack
I have the AMD varient. I know it's a very similar board to the Z77
Here's what the AMD victims got. (p.41)

Download Files form ASRock Inc.

Do you know if they're the same?