Page file needed on OS drive?

[highcountryrider]

Well, just as I thought I had this Windows page file thing figured out I ran across a discussion which suggests that Windows needs to have a page file on the system drive even if you have one on another drive and if it does not it will create a temporary one.

Here are a couple of quotes from the aforementioned discussion:

If you want to completely remove the pagefile from your system drive, you will need one extra step to Shinrai and mtone's answers. As a comment by paradroid mentions, Windows requires to have a pagefile present on your system drive in order to write kernel memory dumps in the event of a crash. So even if you set "No pagefile" on your system drive, Windows will end up creating a pagefile anyway, even if it doesn't actually use it for paging. Trying to delete this pagefile will show it to be in use. In order to work around this, you have to disable kernel memory dumps, which is also done by going through the advanced system settings.

Under the "Advanced" tab, in the "Startup and Recovery" section, click "Settings..."

In the dialogue box that comes up, under the "System failure" section, and the "Write debugging information" subsection, change the drop down menu to "(none)".

After this, you should be able to delete the pagefile.sys from your system drive (although you might need to reboot first).

You need a paging file on the OS partition; the minimum paging file size for the OS partition is 800MB (e.g.: for Win7 Ultimate 64bit). ...This could vary, but Windows will tell you if you set it under the recommended size.

Follow the instructions already posted to set the paging file on the alternate drive.
Then set a small paging file on the OS partition to accomodate the minidumps and BSOD:
If you don't set a paging file on the OS partition, every time you boot Windows will create a temp pagefile.sys the same size as your installed physical RAM. So, if you have 16GB of physical RAM, the temp pagefile.sys will be created at 16,308MB (which is a decent chunk out of your System partition).

Here is a link to the forum discussion quoted.

Would be interested in any comments regarding the points made in this discussion. Am I mis-reading this or is it just incorrect?

[profJim]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

With an o/s ssd boot drive, I've been running with the swapfile (pagefile.sys) on the first partition of my hard drive for nearly two years.
Win7 x64 Home Premium warns me if I select a swapfile that is less than 400MB.
Using a smaller swapfile might not create minidump files when a BSOD occurs.
I've also tested with no swapfile for several days and had no problems.
I'm currently using a swapfile on my D: partition with the following settings: min = 400MB, max = 1024MB.
My swapfile usage is almost always below 200MB. YMMV.

Don't worry, be happy!

[parsec]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

HCR, you may be sick (and skeptical) of getting advice from the same people. That is fine, I do not whatsoever blame or hold that against you, I encourage it!

I will only comment about this:

"If you don't set a paging file on the OS partition, every time you boot Windows will create a temp pagefile.sys the same size as your installed physical RAM. So, if you have 16GB of physical RAM, the temp pagefile.sys will be created at 16,308MB (which is a decent chunk out of your System partition)."

That is just plain false. You can verify this yourself on your PC now.

If you still have your pagefile on the RAM Disk, click Start, and then Computer. You'll see your RAM Disk listed with the other drives on your PC. You can see the full capacity and used space of each drive. Select the RAM Disk, right click and choose Properties. You just see that at least half of the RAM Disk is used, we assume by the pagefile. Close that, and double click the RAM Disk to open it. You won't see the pagefile.sys file listed, but it is there, we know because the space it uses is accounted for in the drives Properties that we just looked at.

If you still have the Computer window up, notice the size and free space of your C drive, the OS drive. Right click it and select Properties to get a better view. Write down the used space, whatever it is, or the free space, or both.

You know how to set up the pagefile in Advanced System Settings. Start that up just to verify that the pagefile only exists on the RAM Disk. If Windows creates a pagefile on the OS drive/partition, for whatever reason, then it will be shown there. You could see the C drive with the pagefile size shown there, if it has one. If the C drive has no pagefile on it, None will be listed next to it.

So we begin with NO pagefile on the C drive/partition, and we know the used space (or free space) of your C drive.

According to that statement I quoted, since you have no pagefile on the C drive, and you have 8GB of RAM memory, if you reboot, you will then find the amount of Used space on your C drive increased by 8GB, and the Free space decreased by 8GB, due to the creation of a pagefile on the C drive. You can also check Advanced system settings for the existence of a pagefile on the C drive.

If you feel like doing this, let us know what happens.

[profJim]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

The following setting will show hidden files, folders, and drives on your system:

[profJim]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

Check out RAM, virtual memory, pagefile, and memory management in Windows for information and additional links that should help and hopefully won't confuse you with too many facts.

[parsec]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

The following setting will show hidden files, folders, and drives on your system:...

... except it won't show pagefile.sys... which is why I did not mention looking for it.

[profJim]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

pagefile.sys is listed in the root directory of my D: partition and is also visible when using windows search.

[parsec]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

Not in the RAM Disk... HA! I always have show hidden files and folders enabled.

I'm monitoring it in Performance Monitor now, hasn't used it once, which may be why it cannot be seen. Curious...

[profJim]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

I'm not using the DataRamDisk software; it stopped working after a recent boot.
Does the ram disk properties show that at least 50% of the total available space is being used?

I found another freeware ram disk software application but it has quite a few recent version changes.
I might give it a try when I get a round tuit.

[parsec]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

Yes, it's as it usually is, just a folder listed for Temp files. I can show you this, check the bottom:

[highcountryrider]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

OK guys, thanks for the info. This was sort of what I suspected as I never noticed a 8 GB increase in used space or 8 GB decrease in available space on the OS drive with ASR_RAM running. I did encounter the temporary page file creation once when I first was setting up the RAM drive because I removed the page file from the C drive and rebooted before starting the RAM drive. After starting the RAM drive and rebooting it did not happen.

I guess what caught my eye was the mention of a small page file being necessary on the system drive to handle kernel memory dumps and BSOD in case of a crash. From what you guys are saying that is not an issue.

I will probably set up the page file on my E drive and use the ASR_RAM drive to store the System and User temp files and browser cache files. I did notice a curious thing about the ASR_RAM drive and parsec, since you are using this also maybe you can take a look and see if it is the same on your system. I had selected both IE and Firefox Cache files to be stored on the RAM drive when setting it up. When I look at the RAM drive directory I only see Firefox under the CacheFile folder, nothing for IE. How about yours?





With the addition of the GTX 650 and the additional 8 GB of RAM I am DONE with adding things to this new system.....although there is a really good deal on a ASUS 23" HD monitor right now on Newegg......no, no, no, don't do it!

[parsec]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

Last things first, I don't use IE at all, and as you don't recall, I don't use the RAM drive as a FF cache, as it always caused FF to crash on me. I should try it again and see...

The IE thing I don't understand. FF lets you select where the cache is, and I've been putting it on another drive. But, I'm finding that after a reboot, it sets it back to the C drive, which is aggravating. Perhaps IE is doing the same thing, and I don't know how IE lets you choose its cache.

Back to pagefile land, since I don't see a pagefile.sys file on the RAM drive, and it seems I haven't ever written to it, I assume it is allocated but not in existence until written to? Or (HA!) it's not working right on the RAM drive. Yes I have an entry for it in advanced System properties. Getting sick of this actually...

You did mention one good point of pagefile, that it holds the data from memory dumps. That would come in handy if one has that problem, which can be simply activated if necessary.

In all the discussion of a pagefile in the links you provided, which I enjoyed reading (seriously), I keep seeing people talking about their 2GB or memory, or 1GB of memory. Well yeah, if that's all you have, you need a pagefile! If you're the type of user that uses up, say 16GB of memory, I would think you'd know it and be able to handle the situation. But I can't see one argument beyond the memory dump and having less than 4GB of memory for the real need of a pagefile. Also, obsessing over its existence is a bit crazy too...

[highcountryrider]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

OK parsec, thanks for the clarification. I just can't figure out why the IE cache files aren't showing up in the RAM drive. Anyhow I think with 16 GB of RAM (which is 12 more than I've ever had) and with the type of usage that I generally do I can't see it being a problem for me. I think I'll knock the RAM drive down to 2 GB, put a 2 GB page file on E drive and figure that 12 GB on the system drive should be more than enough for my everyday usage. Oh, and also stop obsessing about page file issues. Believe me, I hope I don't have to think about it ever again!

[parsec]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

Here's one that's bothering me, possibly related to the IE cache files not being put in the RAM Drive. I put the FFox cache on another drive, via the method described in FFox's own information. Yes it works, I see the cache folder starting from 0 bytes, and increasing in size as I browse. But when I reboot, the entry for the cache file path/folder, which you must enter, such as "D:\FFoxCache" (no quotes) disappears, and the cache returns to the C: drive.

I'm tempted to ask FFox about this or create a problem ticket with FFox, but I might be missing something, I just can't see it...

[profJim]

Re: Page file needed on OS drive?

Is there any way that you can create a start up script that would create an empty X:\FFoxCache folder on the ram drive shortly after windows starts?
If yes, then FireFox should be happy when it starts.