Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

[64bitz]

Hey I am building my first 64bit system, ive built plenty of 32bit systems, and I was wondering is the process any different?

Here is the system I am planning on building, please let me know what you think of the components:

ClawHammer Athlon 64 3400+ (1mb L2)
Thermaltake Venus 12 HSF

NU Technology 8x DVD-RW
Western Digital 120gig SATA Hard Drive
Maxtor 160gig IDE Hard Drive
OCZ Premier Value Dual Channel 1gig Kit
Antec 550 True Control PSU
Radeon X800 pro gfx card
Asus K8N-E Delux Mobo

Questions:

Do I need Windows 64 to run the system?

Does this mobo support dual channel DDR?

Can I run my OS off the SATA and still use the IDE?

Is the pSU strong enough to power everything?

Is this a good setup?

Thanks guys!

[wayout44]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

"Hey I am building my first 64bit system, ive built plenty of 32bit systems, and I was wondering is the process any different?"There is basically no difference at all during assembly.

"Do I need Windows 64 to run the system?" No! Most all benchmarks that you see are based on WinXP 32-bit os.

"Does this mobo support dual channel DDR?" No. All s754 mainboards and CPU's are single channel (you need s939 parts for dual channel).

"Can I run my OS off the SATA and still use the IDE?" Yes.

"Is the pSU strong enough to power everything?" Yes with plenty of headroom.

"Is this a good setup?" There's nothing really wrong with it though I'd go the s939 way plus I have no confidence with Maxtor drives.

[64bitz]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

Thanks for the help this is helping a TON.

Ok first off is it worht the extra cash to go with 939 and get Dual DDR capability? IF so how does this chip/mobo combo sound:

Athlon 64 3500 512K L2 Cache 939-Pin
Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939 Nforce Ultra 3

Will I notice a big difference between the 512L2 and the 1mb L2? Cause i cant afford any other 939 other then this one !

Thanks!

[joedemagio]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

Not to flame or anything, but you posted in the wrong forum. But yes, I'd go for dual channel, it will make a diference, and the cache on the processor will make a difference too. Not a completely obvious difference, but games and tough programs will greatly benefit from that.

[Darthtanion]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

Dual channel aside, s939 is the way to go because this is the chip format that AMD is planning on using in their future product line. s940 is due to be phased out and the s754 processors will be pretty much the budget line. But yes, dual channel is better and though the difference in performance isn't huge, it is there consistently.

The motherboard you chose has gotten a decent review (only seen one so far), but it is one of the models I will be trying to get in house here for testing. The nForce2 Ultra chipsets in s939 flavor have been performing just a bit better than the VIA chipset but both are good choices. Just make sure the motherboard you choose has the features you want.

In the s754 processors, the extra L2 cache seems to have a bigger impact than a little extra speed, but I do not know for sure on the s939 processors. And I certainly understand about the prices, the s939 chips are terribly expensive but will come down in price as the technology becomes a bit more established.

Good luck!

[MRZigzz]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

As far as I can tell, 939 is going to be the main upgrading point in AMD's sites right now (in other words, you won't have to get a new mobo and stuff when you reach the end of, say, the 754 line).

As for the performance part of the equation, it depends on what you are going to do with it. I think anandtech was talking about Doom III taxing the cach very heavily, and the dual-channel part varies, from minimal speed increase (like, 3-5%) to high percentages(50+%).

In other words, tell us what the machine will be doing.

[64bitz]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

First off thanks for all your help again. I know this is the wrong forum, but I wanted to get a maximum response and I know this is the most active forum here (from my experience).

OK The computer is really mainly being used for web-development and design so lots of apps like photoshop, dreamweaver flash etc will be running simultaneously (thus the need for dual channel).

But I also play games.. So I dont want it to be bogging on games, esp Doom III. You dont think the X800 Pro will be able to handle doom III tho?

SO I am going with the 939 chipset, but what about the L2 cache issue. Seeing what I will be using the comp for, do you think it will matter alot that im only going to have 512L2?

Also seeing as how i am getting a 939 now the cooling has to change I was looking at this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProduc...124-005&depa=0

What do you guys think of that system? I know the water is dangerous but right now I have a athlon 3200+ xp with a volcano 11hsf and that shiat is LOUD.

[Yawgm0th]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

What's your budget and are you overclocking?

[64bitz]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

well my system with the 939 and water cooling will cost 1700 for the box. That is just about maxing out my budget..... I may overclock but it doesnt look likely. I just want some QUIET and effective cooling. My buddy went watercooled and said he can barely tell the comp is running, whereas with my current (Volcano 11) HSF it sounds like there is a vacuum in my room 24/7

[Yawgm0th]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

You're going to want an Athlon 64 3500. I tihnk you've misunderstood something as Socket 939 is not a chipset; it's a CPU interface type. You'll need an Athlon 64 3500, 3800, or FX-53. If you're willing to spend more for a 3800 or FX-53, then do so. Otherwise, the 3500 is the entry-level processor for socket 939.

An Athlon 64 3500 will outperform any 3400 or lower, L2 cache aside. In fact, the Anandtech tests indicate that going from 256KB to 512KB to 1MB L2 cache has very little impact on Doom 3 on Athlon 64s and Semprons (or any CPU that isn't limited by a front side bus for that matter). Just a few percent. The 3500 will outperform the 3400 with 1MB cache, don't worry.

If you aren't overclocking than watercooling is rediculous. Not just rediculous, it's stupid. A case with a few fans and the stock retail HSF will be enough for your cooling needs and is unlikely to be loud. Watercooling is generally for the extreme overclocker; it's not necessary or even practical on a regular system with little to no overclocking.

For video card the GeForce 6800 looks quite good, especially for Doom 3. The regular 6800 is quite nice for it's price (under $300), but the GT is good if you want to be guaranteed to have performance be on par or better than the X800 Pro (although the regular 6800 should do that on it's own).

[Darthtanion]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

I agree with most of that, but will offer a different opinion where water cooling is concerned. For anyone who is sick and tired of the loud noise associated with quality air cooling, water is a viable option. There are several kits out there that offer a safe and reliable water cooling setup for your computing pleasure... BUT...

That Kingwin water rig isn't one of them. Any of the smaller setups like that simply cannot handle the stresses of a performance processor. Even though you're coming in at the basement of the s939 architecture, you're talking about a performance rig. With almost no overall water capacity and a pitifully underpowered submersible pump, you'll be lucky to achieve temperatures on par with a stock cooler.

While stock coolers tend to be a good deal quieter than aftermarket ones, it will still be louder than a good water cooling rig. If you can afford a bit more for water, look into some of the kits available at either Danger Den or Swiftech as these kits are full-blown water cooling solutions and not some little magic box that will offer poor results.

If you cannot afford a good water cooling setup, then take that $100 you set aside for cooling and pick up a good Thermalright heatsink that allows you to use a larger 92 or 120mm fan. These fans spin at lower speeds and still create good airflow at a lower noise output.

[64bitz]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

Thanks for all the help again.

Yeah your right on water-cooling i guess ill just get a good HSF. DO you think the geforce 6800 ultra is better then x800 Pro? Especially if linked with the nforce 3 ultra chipset?

Im going with the 3500+ since thats all I can afford, now all i gotta do is choose the fx card, so lemme know what u think!

[Yawgm0th]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

The benchmarks from before the release of the cards showed an overall victory for the X800s. However, Doom 3 benchmarks from multiple sites along with general benchmarks indicate an overall victory for 6800s. Overall, a 6800 is likely to have around the same performance as an X800 Pro, but a 6800GT or 6800U will beat an X800 Pro and even the X800XT PE in many cases. The next two releases of Catalysts may change things, but currently the 6800s are better than the X800s.

[Cataclysm]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

I've heard the 6800's perform well in an Nvidia powered environment (eg Doom III) yet drop off significantly outside this. Now, Correct me if I'm wrong (for my sake).
Also, they have a dual rail power supply, that (if your worried about over heating and HSF's etc) will significantly increase the heat output of the card, raising case temp, and thus, cpu temp. Again, plz correct me if I'm wrong.

Lastly, I haven't seen an Nforce 3 board that supports 64bit 939 AMD's. This is probably my sites. Can ya post a link for me?

[Yawgm0th]

Re: Building my first 64bit System, questions, please help!

It does depend on the game, but 6800s are still a little better overall, even outside Doom 3. The only ones with the rediculous power requirements are the Ultra and Ultra Extreme.

Look around Newegg.com for socket 939 nForce 3 boards. There should be plenty.