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**Yawgm0th** · 04-14-2004, 04:37 AM

We'll worry about the lockup issue if it occurs after the reinstall. :)
By the way, is that DDR SDRAM or just SDRAM?

First thing to do is put in the XP CD and restart the computer. Go into your BIOS, which is probably done by pressing F1 after starting your computer (before Windows loads). Navigate to your BIOS until you find an option allowing you to change the boot priority. Change it to your CD drive (pay attention as to which drive). After that, the installation process should start.

There won't be a lot of options during the install, so following my instructions won't be too difficult. You should reformat both HDDs. If you need something from them, get it off the computer before doing this. How you format them depends a lot on what you're doing. If you play games, as in games that require a lot of CPU power, RAM and HDD usage, and video card usage (in other words, not card games or anything like that), you'll want to do it one way. You'll do it differently if you are a proffesional video editor of some sort or something similar. If you're just a regular user that does e-mail, IM, web browsing, word processing, etc. you'll do it completely differently. Note that there are probably those who would disagree with the suggestions I'm about to give you, so I'll explain:
You have three basic variable to choose when formatting your HDDs:
1. Number of partitions
2. Partition Size
3. File System
The third one is what's most improtant since the other two are more a matter of organization and can be easily changed, for the most part, after installing. There are two choices for your file system: NTFS are FAT32. Most will tell you to go with NTFS, and just NTFS. I disagree, unless you don't do anything that utilizes your HDD power much, ever. The differences, in lamen terms, are:
NTFS utilizes space much better; you can, disregarding extremely rare exceptions, fit much more files and larger files on it. Depending on the size of you're files and whether or not you use it's compression features (which FAT32 does not have), I would say 5% to 15% more. Now, if you're going to use up all 110 or so GB that you'll get out of those two HDDs, that means something. If you'll use use up a good amount, to the point where space might become an issue, that means something else. Basically, NTFS is useful because you'll be able to fit much more. However, it has other, arguably more important uses. First, it's safer for your HDD. What I mean by safer is, your less likely to damage or destroy it with NTFS. Now both damage and destruction are rare, but they do happen. NTFS records all file transfers and writing to the HDD. If something goes wrong while writing to the HDD (such as a crash), there's less chance of errors. NTFS has other features, as well, but the small cluster size (which is what causes it to utilize space better), the ability to compress (which also helps with space), and the "safety" feature are what I find to be most important.

FAT32 has a few bonuses, too. The most important is that it's faster. You can access it faster, write to it faster, it's faster in general. This is because of NTFS's little "safety" feature. This can be a huge different when you're playing games. It's also be faster during "extensive" error checking (as you put it, "the long one"). The only time you'll ever see NTFS go faster should be when defragmenting. The only other real bonus to use FAT32 is compatibility. Most Linux distrobutions can access it, older Windows versions can access it. However, this is becoming irrelevant as there is a freeware program that allows older Windows versions to access it and newer Linux distrobutions allow for NTFS access. Not to mention the fact that you're not using Linux or an older Windows version.

All this considered, here is how I would suggest you set up you partitions:
HDD 1 P1: FAT32. OS and OS-related files and programs go here (including page file). 6-10 GB.
HDD1 P2: FAT32. Games and any other programs that use a lot of system resources go here. Around 70 GB.
HDD2 P1: NTFS. Files that aren't neccesary for programs go here. Particulary good for file-sharing and backup files.

However, if you're a "normal user" that doesn't play games or need all that much speed out of a computer, You have no need for any FAT32 partitions. Go with the same setup, except with all partitions being NTFS.
:2cents:
You will only have to worry about the first partition while installing XP. All other formatting can (and will) be done within XP (Control Panel\Administrative Tools\Disk Management).

There's one other option to consider: You can try dual-booting. Dual-booting will allow you to choose between two operating systems (in this case, Windows 98 and Windows XP) when your computer starts up. There are several reasons for you to do this:
Firstly, your computer is somewhat old (no offense) and will be faster on any "intensive" applications in Windows 98 (98 is faster than XP). Secondly, you can access things from one OS that can't be accessed in the other. In other words, virus removal and deleting things that sometimes won't allow themselves to be deleted (some files do this, there are several causes) become easier. Finally, it makes it easier if you ever have to reinstall one OS or if something goes wrong with one.
The problem is that Windows 98 is unstable and requires some tweaking to become fast. I'd be happy to help you with this if you want to attempt it, but it's not neccessary. If you just want to go with XP, that works just fine.

After installing, you need to install a few things. Drivers. First, you go to the web site of whatever companing made your chipset drivers and download drivers for your chipset. If you don't know what chipset you use, download CPU-Z from www.cpuid.org. After doing that, you install the latest version of Direct x. You can get that from Microsoft, no problem there. After that, go get the 4.4 catalysts for your Radeon. When you're done with that, get any other drivers you need and format your HDDs.

If you have any problems or questions, feel free to post.

**maximus7001** · 04-14-2004, 08:01 AM

Ok you mentioned a volcano 9. What other cooling is there? That psu definately has to go. Are you aware what will probably happen when it blows? The last one I encountered after that happened was a total loss. Everything fried except the floppy and 1 cd rom. The funny thing is, he too also beat around the bush with random freezing for months before it finally happened and could have just got a better psu as advised instead of a whole new machine in the end(minus the floppy and case). So by not spending $65-$80cdn, it cost him $1000cdn plus all the data on the hd.

**Fiercest** · 04-14-2004, 03:45 PM

To Yawgm0th:

Thanks for all the advice. Truly above and beyond (your post is as long as mine!) Really appreciate it. ;)

My memory is just SDRAM. All three sticks.

You can consider me a Gamer as I kill Call of Duty, Rise of Nations, GTA 3, Natural Selection and Dungeon Siege on a regular basis. And you're right about NTFS and FAT32, I have heard differing opinions on which one is best for what lifestyle of user, most of them saying "NTFS all the way." However, since I'm all for access speed and slightly less enthusiastic about security and data failsafes, I'll go ahead and use your recommended setup. Ditto on the NTFS for the second HDD. My standards demand that my backed up data have the very best file system protection.

I've already created my own personal "Post-OS installation" CD as well as an "Enthusiast Tools" CD from years ago that I keep regularly updated with all my hardwares latest drivers and software versions of all things from Ad-Aware to Winzip. They include the redistributable of DirectX 9b as well so getting up to date post-XP installation won't be an issue.

I've also already downloaded and installed the latest VIA Hyperion drivers for my aging KT-133A chipset. Currently, I've reverted to the slightly older v4.43 from the newest v4.51 in an effort to resolve the freezes before I began to post this thread. I haven't gone back to v4.51 after I saw the v.4.43s failed to solve my problems simply because there's no point. I will upgrade back to v4.51 before I attempt the reinstall though.

I won't try dual-booting simply because I consider WinXP much better stability-wise, even with these random freezes. :lol: Also, you're right about Win98 needing alot of tweaking before it becomes a fast, somewhat stable OS. I've been there and done that and would cringe at the thought of doing it again. Still, the offer to help me with it is much appreciated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To maximus7001:

Other then my Volcano 9 and the somewhat negligable airflow my PSU is making, the only other cooling I have in my system is an 80mm Sunon case fan at the front of my tower, below the 3.5" HDD and floppy rack.

It's not really doing much down there as I've already run tests with my case off and my system under high loads and the heat is definitely concentrated in the upper rear section of my tower, directly underneath my PSU, and above my Radeon 9500 Pro, in the general area of my Volcano 9 HSF.

There's a space for a 60mm case fan at the rear of my system, essentially directly inline with the high heat area, I simply can't find a 60mm case fan to buy. There's this place my buddy pointed me to that supposedly sells 60mm CPU fans (which I've been told can be used as case fans, as long as the size fits) I've just yet to make the journey down there.

I probably won't buy it though because I plan on buying the "Antec Sonata" case which comes with my salvation in the form of an included 380W PSU, and larger 120mm case fan mounts. No sense in buying a case fan that won't fit in the case I buy right afterward.

Also, after reading the above you're probably thinking my CPU temperature may have something to do with my freezes. I've already thought about that and while it's still possible, it's unlikely again due to the time I can spend on my computer before problems occur. You did however remind me of another question I had regarding heat with your question about my cooling setup, which I've typed below.

As for what will happen if I don't get a new PSU, don't scare me. I'm already paranoid with my PC as it is. I'd be doing an assignment, get up to get a drink, come back and before I even sit down I'm moving my mouse to see if the system has frozen, heart in my throat. This is no way for a PC enthusiast to live! :cry:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To Everyone Reading This:

All of the advice I've gotten so far has been great, but frankly, I'm curious as to what will be said if I ask for a second opinion.

So here I am asking for a second opinion. Does the above suggested WinXP installation sound like the best one possible? Does anyone out there have any nips or tucks to add to the process that they'd care to suggest? Debate people, debate! This IS a forum isn't it? :)

Also, is there a way that anyone knows of to install Windows XP off of the hard drive so, like the Win98 installation I had previously, I won't ever need to insert my XP CD for things like driver updates or System File Checks? That type of 98 installation was the apex of convenience coolness and I wouldn't mind getting it back under XP.

Finally, regarding heat, whats a generally acceptable temperature for both my CPU and my overall system? Once I buy my case and PSU, I'll probably buy a new CPU HSF and an additional case fan just to make sure my CPU/system heat isn't causing trouble, to kill two birds with one stone essentially. What sort of number should I be aiming for?

Thanking you guys is becoming a habit. However its a habit I'm in no hurry to break. 8)

Peace.

-The Fiercest
"Artificial Intelligence is no match for natural stupidity" - Unknown Author

**Yawgm0th** · 04-14-2004, 07:27 PM

If you ever get some extra money, I'm sure your games would appreciate a new motherboard and some DDR. :2cents: :D
I've never heard of any way to install XP from the HDD. I think HP might have some way of going about it with the way it has its recovery partition on its system, but if you're not on an HP..... There's no reason to anyway, a CD installation should be good enough. You probably won't need you're XP CD if you're done installing. Unless you wanted to install IIS, which you don't, you wouldn't need it. Windows Update and driver downloads will do it.
Please don't get a FAT32 vs. NTFS debate started. :lol:

Last time that happened, we had a guy that couldn't be convinced that NTFS was useful, and it resulted in swearing, followed by post deletion..... :thumbs do
You probably won't see much argument, anyway. The only real question is whether it's worth using FAT32 for the extra speed. And that's a matter of opinion more than fact. Most of the people (or the credible ones anyway, :D ) that would argue with me are elsewhere, anyway. :wink:

Besides, if you have problem or are convinced to do something other than my setup, you can convert FAT32 partitions to NTFS in XP.

And BTW, why do you use WinZip? It isn't needed to open Zip files, and Winrar and 7-zip are more useful programs IMO. :2cents: :D

**maximus7001** · 04-15-2004, 05:43 AM

About the psu, I am just trying to keep it from happening to you as well and stop your crashing. That antec sonata case has the nicest black finish I have ever seen. And is overall a decent extremely quiet case with an actual 380w antec psu. There is a big difference between cheapo and good psu's. The cheapos are always over rated, sometimes up to 100% simpley because these companies don't have to be accountable for it and rely on mass quantity of 1 time sales instead of reputation for profits. So the average generic "450w" for example is more like 250-300w. For best results, do not use the "fan only" power connectors on the antec psu. On the sonata case I did work on, I ended up modding a 80mm fan with wire grille into the lower front bezel to reduce the negative case pressure. Before doing this, the temps were much lower with the side off, not anymore. The problem was, the rear 120mm case fan on it's own was overpowering the thermo controled psu fan and pulling hot air from the psu into the case.

**Fiercest** · 04-15-2004, 12:41 PM

Yawgm0th:

Way ahead of you on the "if you ever get some money..." part.
It would take me exactly $922.30 CDN after tax to get the Antec Sonata, Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mobo, Athlon XP 3000+ Barton CPU and OCZ "Platinum Edition" 512MB EL-DDR Dual Channel Kit I've been wanting for over half a year now. If you'd like to make a donation... ;)

I use Winzip from force of habit I guess, and I do use Winrar. Winzip just sounded better in my description of my CDs cause it had a Z in it. You know, from Ad-aware to WinZip? A to Z? I'm lyrically dramatic like that... :roll:

maximus7001:

From the description I read of the Antec Sonata, it appears to come with a 120mm fan already hooked up in the rear of the case. I'm assuming this fan is using the "Fan Only" connection that runs off the PSU since it isn't drawing power from a motherboard or anything.

Also, I'll probably have to use the "Fan Only" connector regardless. I read it makes the fan connected to it run at the same RPM as the fan in the PSU right? Making the connected fan automatically quieter? Well when I buy this case its gonna come with a fan, and I'm going to be connecting my CPU HSF and another 120mm fan to my motherboard (it only has 2 fan connections.) Like hell am I gonna have my HSF running at a slower RPM then its supposed to, and the fan I buy to put at the front of the case will be too far away from the PSU to use the FO connector neatly. That only leaves the rear fan to use the FO connector or not be connected at all.

I thought this was a fine setup until you brought up your negative case pressure and modding solution. Now I'm concerned. :lol:

What exactly was the issue with the fans and high temps being encountered? Could you explain it in more exacting detail? Sorry, but I'm a pseudo-noob when it comes to case fans and the like (I just hook em' up and let em' turn) and I'd really like to learn more about this glitch you found with the Sonata case setup. Hell, I'd like to learn more about case pressure and case cooling period!

Post back soon bro. 8)

-The Fiercest
"Last night I was lying in bed, staring at the stars, and I wondered... Where the **** is my roof?" - Unknown Comedian :lol:

**Yawgm0th** · 04-15-2004, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Fiercest

Way ahead of you on the "if you ever get some money..." part.
It would take me exactly $922.30 CDN after tax to get the Antec Sonata, Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe mobo, Athlon XP 3000+ Barton CPU and OCZ "Platinum Edition" 512MB EL-DDR Dual Channel Kit I've been wanting for over half a year now. If you'd like to make a donation...

Hmmm.... I bet I could find better hardware than that for much cheaper. In fact, I was planning on an entire system for around $550 U.S. ($740 CAD). But you don't need a new video card (and I do). Hell, for the money your thinking of you could almost (maybe $100 U.S. more) get an Athlon 64 system (assuming you didn't upgrade video).
I don't know what sales tax is over there, though. I imagine it's a bit higher than over here. Plus, I don't know how it works if you ordered from a U.S.-based site. I still think (I'm almost positive) I could find better for well under that price (about $670 U.S. is $900 CAD)

Really, it's no problem. I think it would be more appropriate if we had a newthread in "What Should I Buy," but it's up to you. I'm sure you'll be quite happy. :D

**Fiercest** · 04-16-2004, 06:39 PM

Yawgm0th:

Thanks alot bro, but I'm gonna hold off on searching earnestly for hardware until I've actually got some Green saved up to purchase it with. I'm sure you've decided to buy something once, and then had to wait until you'd saved up the money in order to get it. That sort of "waiting ready" game is extremely frustrating to me. While foresight and planning are all well and good for buying a new rig/hardware, I don't like doing it more then 2 months ahead of when I absolutely know I'll be able to buy it, otherwise I'd just get pissed off that what I want is so shiny and perfect and yet JUST another few months away. Hair pulling frustration to the max, is what that is. 8)

What you COULD do for me though is dig up a link for that AVG virus scanner program you once told me about. Remember how you used to keep it in your sig? Well, I dunno if its a forum setting I'm overlooking or if I'm just going crazy, but I don't see anyone's custom sigs anymore. Was gonna follow that link of yours just before it disappeared. So if you could hunt down that link or just point me in the general direction of it, I'll be real grateful.

maximus7001:

Where the hell are you!? :lol:

Just curious about those details on your Sonata case pressure issue. Wouldn't want to buy it (sigh.....someday.....) and then run smack hard into a wall I could've avoided.

Post at your convenience.......just let it be convenient quickly. ;)

-The Fiercest
"God is my favorite fictional character" - Homer Simpson

**Yawgm0th** · 04-16-2004, 07:10 PM

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Yeah, signatures haven't been working for a while now. Almost nothing has. Most of us have moved on to a different site because of major administration issues. I still post here, though. Come join us here.You'lll find almost all of the old regulars and more good freeware links than you'll know what to do with. :D

Originally posted by fiercest

I'm sure you've decided to buy something once, and then had to wait until you'd saved up the money in order to get it. That sort of "waiting ready" game is extremely frustrating to me.

Your telling me. :rolleyes: I'm still trying to scrounge up $550 U.S. to get something that should be painfully low-end within 2 years and difficult to upgrade. :thumbs do
Hmm.... Maybe if I plunder Canada. It's right next door (not really, but I'm closer than most)......
:P :laugh:

**werley_123** · 04-18-2004, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by Yawgm0th

There's one other option to consider: You can try dual-booting. Dual-booting will allow you to choose between two operating systems (in this case, Windows 98 and Windows XP) when your computer starts up.

Sorry for butting in like this, but you mentioned dual-booting. I've been trying to find the software to do this but have got absolutley no where (I have a copy of Red Hat Linux with GRUB Loader, but I can't get it off there.

I'm building a new computer and want to run dual OS. Have any advice?

**Yawgm0th** · 04-18-2004, 10:09 PM

If you're using RedHat, just install it after installing Windows. The same applies to most Distros. You won't need any extra software usually. The order of installation goes like this if, say, you're dual-booting 98/XP/Linux:
Windows 98
Windows XP
Linux
The 98 boot loader will overwrite any other boot loaders. The XP boot loader will overwrite anything but other Windows versions. Linux boot loaders (GRUB and LILO, for example) will just integrate the other boot loaders as boot options, rather than overwriting them. Dual-booting Linux should be pretty simple. :wink:

**werley_123** · 04-18-2004, 10:34 PM

Well no, I'm not doing Linux, just XP and 98. So, I understand that I will need dual partitions, but how do I go about accessing and loading the seperate programs? The next thing is that my copy of XP is an upgrade (which means I would have to install 98 then go to XP), would that mess anything up? And XP comes with it's own boot loader?

I've done this before with linux but not a dual windows system...i just don't understand the software setup.

**Yawgm0th** · 04-18-2004, 11:07 PM

Like I said, there's nothing special involved......
Installl Windows 98. From there, you can create a 2nd partition to install XP on. You can also do it from the XP installation, so whichever you find more convenient is fine. There should be some sort of option from the upgrade CD that allows you to setup a fresh install of XP, rather than installing it over the previous Windows version.

As for accessing programs, there can be some problems when dual-booting. Some programs, mostly games, will have problems if you install them in one OS but try to run them in an other. Most programs will be fine, but some won't work properly or at all. The best thing to do is to install the program in both operating systems. The setup of whatever program you're installing will just copy over the files so it won't wreck the program at all. That way, you have registry entries in both operating systems.

Originally posted by werley_123

And XP comes with it's own boot loader?

Of course. How do you think you boot into XP? :wink:

**werley_123** · 04-18-2004, 11:15 PM

Alright, let me go over this one more time just so I don't screw nothing up.

I make two partitions while partioning the drive. Windows will be able to read both pratitions.

I install 98 on one of them. Once it is up and going, i install 98 on the other partition (drive D).

When it boots, it will ask me which one i want to run.

I install XP over one of the 98's and it is done.

something like that, or am I way off?

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