Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

[mklein]

CPU: Intel Q8200 Core 2 Quad @ 2.33Ghz
RAM: Crucial 4x4GB DDR3 CL-11 1.35v
MOBO: GA-EP45T-DS3R

I am in desperate need of 16GB for AOSP work and other builds...and while I'm at it a little easy OC would be fine too.

At moment I'm in "bad ram hell". Of two RAM shipments (crucial and Amazon) only 1 of 4 worked. The others failed memtest in seconds...plugged in all by themselves.

Before I start returning RAM I want to know what options are left.

A few questions first:

1. Does the EP45T-DS3R support XPM?d
2. Does Crucial support XPM?
3. Given I can't even memtest with single chips that appear bad (always used first socket though)...what is there to do except get good ram?
Or is there a reason a chip might need to be in slot 2 instead of 1?

Help will be much appreciated.

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

Got 2 more strips of same and....memtest has been running for over an hour!

The only difference in memtest passing seemed to be fact I bumped up voltage a tad per instructions. Then again as I have all 4 strips in there's no other choice really.

I'll let memtest burn in another hour or so and then I'll start some of OC process.

[profJim]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

Welcome to the forum.

A web search using: xmp memory will provide a lot of useful information.
For example, Corsair User's Guide:http://www.corsair.com/media/cms/manual/Using_XMP.pdf

The Gigabyte website for your EP45T-DS3R does not claim XMP support, but their compatible memory QVL has a column with XMP as the header and a few of the fastest memory kits in the list have a check mark in the XMP column.

Page 42 in your motherboard user manual has the following bios setting:

Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.)^(Note)
Allows the BIOS to read the SPD data on XMP memory module(s) to enhance memory performance when enabled.

• Disabled -- Disables this function. (Default)
• Profile1 -- Uses Profile 1 settings.
• Profile2 -- Uses Profile 2 settings

^(Note)This item appears only if you install a memory module that supports this feature.

Memory compatibility is a must and you will probably need to find kits where the memory manufacturer has a list of memory kits that are/were compatible with your motherboard. It is unlikely that modern DDR3 memory kits will work well with your older system hardware.

Use the forum's Advanced Search feature (near the upper right top corner of forum web pages) using EP45T as the search keyword and select the Search Thread Titles Only option. You will be able to look at quite a few threads and see many of the difficulties when using DDR3 memory. Many had to lower the memory speed initially and then work there way higher. With 4 x 4 GB of ram it will probably not be easy.

Sorry to sound so negative but you have a difficult challenge trying to use 4 x 4 GB of higher speed DDR3 memory with an older LGA775 system.

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

I am following vendors PRINTED specs fairly religiously I think. I am merely trying to build out a system per its specs...not trying to get anything that s/not be there.

"The Gigabyte website for your EP45T-DS3R does not claim XMP support"

Actually it does and this is in the mobo manual. The only qualification is having memory which supports XMP...and Gigabyte conveniently left off 4GB suppliers making it a fairly difficult thing to ferret out. Gigabyte shows in numerous manual pages the presence of a "XMP" bios setting and some pretty knowledgeable tweakers on this forum and others have stated to effect "you don't see this option you screwed up your bios upgrade or cmos clearing".

Gigabyte also claims to fully support DDR3 16GB (via 4x4) on their mobo as well and Crucial backs this up. With this being said...they of course list ZERO 4gb RAM suppliers in their "memory support" page and seem to contradict their mobo manual in everything printed on their web site instead lowering max to 8GB overall than 16GB.

Admittedly as I'm on a P45 system those posts are old...but hey this IS older hw so I kinda expected this.

This particular XMP pdf link you give I hadn't hit yet, thanks.

I'm not discouraged because I'm not seeing the same difficulty in getting this working (famous last words, yes) nor the pages you refer to...and yes I have searched on my mobo type...will certainly check again.

Thanks again for info.

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

On EP45T I only get 3 hits on search title and one has no responses.
Given my primary want was for 16gb I didn't see anything there really directly relating to this.

You state "It is unlikely that modern DDR3 memory kits will work well with your older system hardware." Is there anything that is changed with newer DDR3 vs. older strips? Or does this really all come down to "16gb isn't a drop-in and may take more work than you would like".

Again my main desire was 16GB ram for AOSP and some other "big builds" and didn't really come down to OCg.

Perhaps tomorrow I will post my "16gb settings" BIOS profile so it can be examined for any "wtf??" values I put in. Not many changes though.

Thanks again for assist.

[profJim]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

A web search using: what causes computer memory incompatibility should provide useful information.

One problem is that memory manufacturers seldom or don't test newer memory kits for compatibility with old motherboards. Some memory kits are listed as compatible with somewhat older systems but it's unlikely that recent memory kits will work with much older systems. Sometimes memory kit chip density causes problems, e.g. single sided versus double sided chips.

One very important bios setting is MCH Core voltage. This setting varies with how many memory modules are installed and how many gigabytes are used. MCH Core settings that are too high or too low can cause boot loop problems and/or instability. There aren't hard and fast rules and the correct setting can be different for two "similar" kits where each kit comes from a different manufacturer.

[hotlynx16]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

If you got your 16GB stable, could you please Post the module numbers/info that worked for you. I have a similar board (GA-43T-ES3G) and Ordered just a 8GB pair from Crucial, the first pair I had to raise my MCH voltage to 1.2V to get it to not hang the one stick checked bad so I had to RMA, waiting for new set now.

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

One problem is that memory manufacturers seldom or don't test newer memory kits for compatibility with old motherboards. Some memory kits are listed as compatible with somewhat older systems but it's unlikely that recent memory kits will work with much older systems. Sometimes memory kit chip density causes problems, e.g. single sided versus double sided chips.

This sounds like a lot of fun to diagnose!

I had to stop for a bit as the reason for going to 16GB (with existing system if poss.) was to build Android from scratch. Once I saw my Q8200 was missing the VT feature...time for a new cpu. With VT the extra RAM will at least go to good use.

I've ordered a Q9650 to replace and will be starting everything over...prob' in next 2 days as cpu s/come tomorrow.

I will document my process a bit more formally in case it helps others going "retro/old school" trying to save some $$$.

Thanks profJim/all and see you online in a day or so.

[profJim]

‡‡ --> Yes

‡ This feature may not be available on all computing systems. Please check with the system vendor to determine if your system delivers this feature, or reference the system specifications (motherboard, processor, chipset, power supply, HDD, graphics controller, memory, BIOS, drivers, virtual machine monitor-VMM, platform software, and/or operating system) for feature compatibility. Functionality, performance, and other benefits of this feature may vary depending on system configuration.

A couple useful links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rting_hardware
https://software.intel.com/en-us/for...t/topic/303715

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

I didn’t think I needed VT-D capability but you scared me enough I actually reverified a test I’d already done! Lol…

My Q9650 came via USPS a few days after everything else (fans, etc.) sigh. But the upgrade went well. Going from my old 2.3GHz cpu to 3GHz brought down my Android build from 1 hour to 45m (woohoo!). I actually still can't emulate x86_64 devices due to Haxm and linux, but have plenty of workarounds.

My only requirement thankfully was for VT-X capability...and more RAM. Everything is working well and I'm digging the Lepa closed loop cooler. It's mounted at the rear/top of my case and all other vents are setup as exhaust. I went a little crazy with the led fans, basing it on a “temperature” scheme. All are Thermaltake Riing 12 or 14. The blue outer fan on radiator is my “cool intake” and fan on other side of radiator is OEM fan with no LED. Two top vents have orange 140s and both side panel holes at rear have two orange 140s. Up at the front panel I’ve got a couple of yellow 140s stacked vertically underneath my dvd drive and fan controller. The metal “hockey puck” cpu head glows red. I finished my color Jones’g off with a Lingyi Black Widow illuminated keyboard.

Cpu temps are generally between 28-32c and at about 10m into the build the heat peaked on all cores between 42-51 for rest of hour while it did its thing. Max temp was 55 on one core but only briefly. Generally the one core was at 51 and other mid 40s.

What I would like to have is the best OC given my setup. Is hoping for 3.5GHz too much with my legacy gear and single radiator cooler? And if 3.5 is ok…3.75? Heh heh.

So I will start again with my BIOS settings and attempt to create a few profiles (normal, fast, faster) that survive a boot, memtest and prime.

Only question I still have is in regards to XPM support in my bios. The setting appears to be missing yet my manual shows it…yet is vague and says it won’t appear (even disabled?) unless memory is compatible. I’m not sweating on my 16GB ram just yet, merely wondering why XPM wasn’t showing in bios and believing I hadn’t cleared bios or followed reset protocol correctly per some other knowledgeable posters.

I’ll be tweaking bios settings tonight and will post working profiles/settings for folks.

Thanks much profJim…crossing my fingers.

[profJim]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

XPM has nothing to do with memory settings.

XMP (Extreme Memory Profile) is the setting that might be available, but only if the SPD info for your memory shows an SPD column that says XMP at the top of at least one column.





Your Q9650 should easily overclock to 3.60GHz and will probably go to 4.00GHz or higher if you are willing to put up with higher temperatures and cpu voltage.

My stable Q9550 settings at 4.012GHz:




Happy tweaking!!

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

Oooh thanks for the settings projJim…looks like I’ll be busy tonight.

The highest clock speed I could get by only changing cpu speed was 3.25GHz. I tried some other settings based on what worked before but couldn't get higher.

FYI...My Macbook Pro Core i7 with 8GB took FIVE hours to build AOSP! My old quad Q8200 with 16GB @2.3Ghz over an hour to build AOSP. My new Q9650 16GB/3GHz does it in 45m...and with my baby OC of .25GHz it's now 41m.

CPU Host Clock Control: ENABLED (was disabled)
CPU Host Frequency: 362

362 x CpuClockRatio (of 9) = 3.25

Interesting that my baby OC didn’t even seem to boost my temps by more than a single degree celsius. It basically ran just as cool as at 3GHz. Perhaps I just haven’t reached a critical “point” yet.

Will report back shortly. Take care all and have a good weekend.

[profJim]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

With moderate or high overclocks CPU PLL and CPU Termination will be set too high with the AUTO setting.

CPU PLL should be 1.59 or lower and CPU Termination (aks Vtt) should be at least 0.05 lower than Cpu Vcore.

MCH Core might need up to 1.30 volts, but lower is better.

The ET6 (EasyTune 6) Advance Voltage setting provides excellent information, along with the other info in my screenshot.

Cpu Vcore voltages and temperatures will probably be slightly higher up to about 3.60GHz and higher cpu voltages will be required as you reach the high 3.00GHz range.

Here is an EP45 bios template that you should fill in and add to a post that should be included with a detailed cropped screenshot:

[SIZE=4]Motherboard: Model:  Rev#:  Bios Version:
Cpu: Model
Ram: Brand, Model/Part#, Link to your ram's specs
Power Supply Unit: Brand, Model#, Wattage

Default settings for new setups that are not overclocked.

note: replace all ?? with the value displayed in your bios.
----> Replace "Auto" with manually set values.

MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster -------- : [Auto] 
CPU Clock Ratio ---------------- : [##]
Fine CPU Clock Ratio ----------- : [0.0] 
CPU Frequency -------------- : ####
Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control --------- : [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ------- : [Mhz]
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) ---- : [Auto] 
C.I.A.2 ------------------------ : [Disabled]
Advanced Clock Control ------- [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive ---------------- : ??? 
PCI Express Clock Drive -------- : ???
CPU Clock Skew (ps) ------------ : ???
MCH Clock Skew (ps) ------------ : ???
DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance ------------ : [Turbo] 
Extreme Memory Profile - (XMP) - : [Disabled] 
(G)MCH Frequency Latch --------- : [Auto]
System Memory Multiplier ------- : [Auto]
Memory Frequency (Mhz) --------- : [Auto]
DRAM Timing Selectable --------- : [Auto] 
Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time ------- ?? ---- : [Auto]
tRCD  ------------------ ?? ---- : [Auto]
tRP -------------------- ?? ---- : [Auto]
tRAS  ------------------ ?? ---- : [Auto]
Advanced Timing Control
tRRD  ------------------ ?? ---- : [Auto]
tWTR  ------------------ ?? ---- : [Auto]
tWR -------------------- ?? ---- : [Auto]
tRFC  ------------------ ?? ---- : [Auto]
tRTP  ------------------ ?? ---- : [Auto]
Command Rate (CMD) ------------- : [Auto] 
Channel A Timing Settings -- {Press Enter to change settings}
Static tRead Value ------------- : [Auto]
tRD Phase0 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto] 
tRD Phase1 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto]
tRD Phase2 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto]
tRD Phase3 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto]
Trd2rd(Different Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Twr2wr(Different Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Twr2rd(Different Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control ------- : [Auto]  ps
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control ------- : [Auto]  ps
Channel B Timing Settings -- {Press Enter to change settings}
Static tRead Value ------------- : [Auto]
tRD Phase0 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto] 
tRD Phase1 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto]
tRD Phase2 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto]
tRD Phase3 Adjustment ---------- : [Auto]
Trd2rd(Different Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Twr2wr(Different Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Twr2rd(Different Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank) --------- : [Auto]
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control ------- : [Auto]  ps
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control ------- : [Auto]  ps
Channel A and B Driving Settings ------ {Press Enter to change settings}
Driving Strength Profile ------- : [Auto] 			<-- setting for channel A
Driving Strength Profile ------- : [Auto] 			<-- setting for channel B
Motherboard Voltage Control
CPU
Voltage Types--------- Normal ----- Current -----
Load-Line Calibration ---------- : [Disabled]
CPU Vcore ----------- 1.????? -- : [Auto] 
CPU Termination ----- 1.200V* -- : [Auto] 
CPU PLL ------------- 1.500V* -- : [Auto] 	
CPU Reference ------- 0.755V* -- : [Auto] 
CPU Reference2 ------ 0.800V* -- : [Auto] 
MCH/ICH
MCH Core ------------- 1.100V -- : [Auto] 
MCH Reference -------- 0.800V -- : [Auto]
MCH/DRAM Ref --------- 0.900V -- : [Auto]
ICH I/O -------------- 1.500V -- : [Auto] 
ICH Core ------------- 1.100V -- : [Auto] 
DRAM
DRAM Voltage --------- 1.800V -- : [Auto] 
DRAM Termination ----- 0.900V -- : [Auto]
Channel A Reference -- 0.900V -- : [Auto]
Channel B Reference -- 0.900V -- : [Auto]
Advanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3 ---------- : [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect ------ : [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E) -------- : [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support ----------- : [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support --------- : [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2 (TM2) ---- : [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function  ------------- : [Disabled]
Virtualization Technology ------ : [Disabled] 
Integrated Peripherals
Legacy USB Storage Detect  ----- : [Enabled][/SIZE]

Have fun!

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

I’ve got my Q9650 OCd to 4.05GHz at moment and it is stable enough for memtest and an AOSP build (famous last words...minutes from completing).

I was shooting for 4.20GHz but didn’t have the settings mojo to pull it off. Tried bumping up mem and cpu voltage and playing with memory clock and fsb multiplier. Very close, could boot into Ubuntu and start a build but then it would hang after 5m or so. Temperatures were barely a degree or two above 3GHz stock from what I could tell. In fact at 4.05GHz I haven’t even hit a cpu max over 50 yet!!!

With a 3GHz cpu and fast SSD I was getting close to 5s boot times stock. Really started noticing delays as I clocked higher and higher. Now its fast again. It also helps when you remember to zero out the boot delay you put in so you could take a picture at startup…doh!

I’ll get Prime hitting my box shortly for tests. At the moment an AOSP build works for this. At 4.20GHz I had memtest working for 15m or so (full pass thru 16GB) but the build would make it give up the ghost.

I'm not using AUTO for voltage settings (yes I've been reading) and will examine issues you bring up. I've been 'tweaking' all night and need to get some sleep. I promise to post the info sheet later today...when I prob' hit you up for a few last Qs.

Take care.

[mklein]

Re: Wanting to add 16GB and a pinch of OC to EP45T-DS3R...but much bad voodoo, memory, etc.

My latest AOSP build? 34 minutes...seven more minutes shaved.