Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Cleaning between the heatsinks cooling fins is a PITA, but using an air compressor with a high pressure adapter attached to the end of the hose does an excellent job. When you reapply TIM, you've already removed the cpu heatsink so this is an ideal time to thoroughly clean the heatsink and attached fans.

The hardware bundle that included my Q9650 and P35-DS4 included a Noctua NH-C12P downdraft cpu cooler and NF-P12 fan.
As I recall, I had no temperature or heat problems using this cooler and overclocking my Q9650 to 3.80GHz and 4.0GHz.
The cpu core temperatures were probably in the low to mid 70^o(C) range with IBT and LinX and about 10^o cooler when running Prime95.
With good airflow in your case and ambient temperatures in the low 20^o(C) range, your NH-U12P should be several degrees cooler.

A lint free cloth is ideal for cleaning both surfaces, but I do fine with tissue paper and/or Q-tips.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Food for thought:
Thermal Design Power (TDP)

http://ark.intel.com/products/33087/...333-MHz-FSB%29
X5460

• Max TDP: 120 W
• VID Voltage Range: 0.850V-1.3500V

http://ark.intel.com/products/35428/...333-MHz-FSB%29
Q9650

• Max TDP: 95 W
• VID Voltage Range: 0.8500V-1.3625V

This tells me that your Xeon cpu generates ~ 26% more heat than my Q9650 when running "typical" applications. IBT, LinX and Prime95 draw a lot more power and generate much more heat than typical applications. This might mean that your cpu heatsink is working properly but that it has to dissipate much more heat than my system generates while stress testing. My system is connected to a CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS and it tracks how much power my system draws from the wall outlet. Some under $100 UPS models have a similar feature.

A Kill-A-Watt or similar meter should provide similar information for your system.

A web search using: what is maximum intel tdp provides additional information.

Here are a couple of brief quotes:

from http://www.intel.com/content/dam/doc...ower-paper.pdf

TDP

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_Design_Power

The thermal design power (TDP), sometimes called thermal design point, refers to the maximum amount of heat generated by the CPU, which the cooling system in a computer is required to dissipate in typical operation.[1]

The TDP is typically not the largest amount of heat the CPU could ever generate (peak power), such as by running a power virus, but rather the maximum amount of heat that it would generate when running "real applications." This ensures the computer will be able to handle essentially all applications without exceeding its thermal envelope, or requiring a cooling system for the maximum theoretical power (which would cost more but in favor of extra headroom for processing power).

Some sources state that the peak power for a microprocessor is usually 1.5 times the TDP rating.[3] However, the TDP is a conventional figure while its measurement methodology has been the subject of controversy. In particular, until around 2006 AMD used to report the maximum power draw of its processors as TDP, but Intel changed this practice with the introduction of its Conroe family of processors.[4] A similar but more recent controversy has involved the power TDP measurements of some Ivy Bridge Y-series processors, with which Intel has introduced a new metric they call scenario design power (SDP).

Happy reading, but don't forget to study for your exams.

[lukevega]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Ok, so I'm thinking that the next steps are for me (when I next get a break from studying) to remove my cooler, clean any remaining dust as best I can (best I have is a can of compressed air, I've heard a paintbrush might help for between the fins) and re-apply TIM this time using the Arctic Silver 5. I will take some pictures of the TIM that has been on so far for you to critique before I put everything back together.

In the meantime, are there any cost-effective upgrade items you can think of (bearing in mind prices are a little higher in the UK) that I might purchase to help optimise my system?

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

If you want to use an offline external hard drive for backups, a pci-e usb 3.0 card which should provide 80 - 100 MB/sec file copying speeds for larger files.
Most cards will require one pci-e x1 slot and probably require one power supply 4-pin molex cable.
P35 motherboards have pci-e 1.x bandwidth so whatever card you buy needs to be backward compatible.
File transfer speeds will be slightly slower on our P35 motherboards compared with newer motherboards that have pci-e 2.0 bandwidth.

Read the customer reviews very carefully, as some of these cards don't perform as well as the higher rated cards.

I have a 3TB usb 3.0 external hard drive that works well with both of my P35 systems.
My external hard drive came preformatted with one partition, but I reformatted it to three partitions.
As expected, total usable size is ~ 2.7TB.
I don't use the included backup software that comes with external drives as I prefer to use Macrium Reflect freeware for my backups.

USB 3.0 flash drives have work well, but reading and writing speeds depend on how fast your usb 3.0 flash drives are.

Check out Scan.co.uk or other local sites for more information.

An aftermarket audio card offers better fidelity, but you really need high quality speakers or headphones to truly appreciate the difference.
I have HT Omega pci audio cards in each of my systems.
You can use a pci card or a pci-e x1 card in your system.
Plan on spending ~ $75 - $200 for one of the better audio cards.

Your specs don't list your monitor, but I really like my Asus 24" monitor.
I'm very tempted to buy a new 27" IPS monitor with higher screen resolution, but the cost is $300 - $400 or more.

How big is the boot partition on your ssd?
I have an ssd tweak that will extend the life of your ssd and might improve performance somewhat.

[lukevega]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

My monitor is pretty old and not even HD - might add a new one to the wishlist if I pass these exams and finally manage to graduate!

I recently purchased a StarTech Dual Port PCI Express SATA III 6 Gbps Controller Card so that my SSD would run faster so could maybe use an eSATA backup drive instead, still doesn't help with flash drives though I guess.

My speakers aren't great atm so I'll probably hold out on an audio card for the time being.

I haven't partitioned my SSD - thinking about upgrading to Windows 8.1 and wiping everything from it when I do.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

I don't know if there are any advantages to running windows 8.1 on your P35-DS3L system.

I'd like to know how well you ssd performs using the AS SSD benchmark with your StarTech 6Gbps controller.
Download from Guru3D: AS SSD Benchmark Download v1.7.4739.38088

These are my AS SSD scores for both of my systems:





Check out this list for possible solutions: Newegg.com - Computer Hardware, Hard Drives, Hard Drive Enclosures, USB2.0 & eSATA, USB3.0 & eSATA, cooling fan

You might be able to buy Rosewill products from Amazon in Europe.

I've like and have used this usb 2.0 + eSata external enclosure for several years (using a sata to eSata cable):
Rosewill RX-358 V2 SLV (Silver) 3.5" SATA to USB & eSATA External Enclosure w/Int.80mm Fan - Newegg.com

I don't know if bare hard drives that are larger than 2.2TB will work in some of the external hard drive enclosures, read the specifications.

[lukevega]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

I will get some benchmarks for you soon - I'm worried that they will pale in comparison to yours but at the end of the day I'm still learning so have lots of improvements to do!

Is it worth getting more or different RAM or even a new MB to make cost-effective improvements?

What about water cooling?

I'm just aiming to achieve "the best bang for my buck" and other than needing to RMA a set of RAM that was causing BSODS this system hasn't let me down :)

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Don't worry about your benchmark scores, they are what they are.
Your ssd benchmarks should be similar to my #1 and #2 tests unless something is terribly wrong with your system.

Don't put a lot of money into your P35 system!! It's an oldie but a goody but there isn't much more you can do to upgrade it.
Check around and you'll find that new or used DDR2 memory is prohibitively expensive.
8GB of matching ram is nice but not necessary unless you are running intensive and demanding programs.

Buying a nicer monitor or keyboard is money well spent because you can transfer these to an upgraded system in the future.

Water cooling? You'll need to spend over $100 - $140 to buy a high-end all in one (AIO) water cooling kit that will offer about 5^o - 7^o(C) more cooling than some of the best air cooling setups. Go to HARDOCP - Cooling & Case Reviews, Page 1 and read some of the AIO reviews and you'll see that there are several air cooled setups that are very close to most AIO water kits. Your current Noctua NH-U12P Push-Pull is about as good as it gets unless you want to spend a lot of money for very little improvement.

If you want your cpu and motherboard to last, I'd keep your overclock in the 3.60GHz to 3.80GHz range. Run your system at 3.60GHz for a week, then run it at 3.80GHz and you probably won't see a lot of real world difference. The jump from 3.00GHz to 3.60GHz is very noticeable but running at 4.00GHz would be a much less noticeable improvement.

Start saving some money for a newer system now. You might luck out and find a nice, newer used system at a really good price.

I was looking for a Q9550 or better cpu for an upgrade and ended up buying the Q9650, P35-DS4, 16GB (8 x 2GB) of high end OCZ Reaper ram and a bunch of miscellaneous hardware for not much more than I wanted to pay for the cpu only. Once I sell the hardware that I don't need, my net price will be about the price I wanted to pay for the higher end quad core processor alone. I'll keep both of my P35 systems as backups when I eventually upgrade to a much newer system.

Now I have a system where I can do major photo manipulation using LightRoom 4.3.
Once in a while we get lucky.

[lukevega]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Positively atrocious scores from my SSD! :/



Any idea how I go about trying to get better performance from it?

Also, if you don't mind me asking, how much does a system like yours cost and where did you find such a good deal?

All the best,

Lukevega

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

To get better ssd performance only use the motherboard's native Intel sata2 ports. Your optimal setup will be:

• sata2_0 port: ssd boot drive
• sata2_1 port: hard drive
• sata2_4 port: hard drive
• sata2_5 port: optical drive

Your ssd partition is properly aligned on a 4K boundary for optimal performance.

My ssd #1 and #2 benchmark results are typical for sata3 ssd's running in a sata2 system.

note: The pci-e 1.0 bandwidth prevents add-in controller cards from delivering their maximum performance.

Even if our P35 motherboards had pci-e 2.0 bandwidth I don't think that sata3 ssd performance would be much better than the native Intel sata2 ports.

Case airflow and cooling

You can probably improve airflow and case cooling by making the following changes:

1. Move both hard drives to the lower hard drive cage.
2. Remove the upper hard drive cage for unobstructed air intake flow.
3. Make sure that both front panel air filters are clean.
4. You might get even better cooling and airflow if you can move the front panel intake fan to the rear of the now empty upper hard drive cage.

credit: Overclock3D :: Review :: Antec P182 Advanced Super Mid Tower :: Internals

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Some additional airflow and cooling thoughts:

• Mounting your cpu heatsink vertically will no longer pull heated air directly from your video card into your push/pull cpu heatsink fans.
• You can add an additional 120mm air intake cooling fan above your optical drive.
  With this setup you would need to remove the 3 front panel bay covers and it would be best to add a front panel screen filter.
  Naturally you would need to be creative to mount this new fan securely using zip ties, velcro or some home made brackets.
• You should also get improved airflow by keeping your front case panel door open.

I've found that using dryer fabric softener sheets very effective as a disposable fan filters.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

@lukevega

I hope you saw post #40 and post #41, they go together.

This are some of your settings that you used 3 days ago when you got a BSOD 0x124 one minute after starting Prime95:

CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [9]
Fine Clock Ratio ____________[0.5]
CPU Host Clock Control___ [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (MHz)___ [411] --> 9.5 X 411 = 3.905GHz

System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.200V]
PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [+0.1V]
FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.1V]
(G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.41250V]

First, lower the CPU Voltage Control to 1.40000.

Make the changes in the numbered list one at a time and boot your system.
If your system boots to the windows desktop, leave your system idle for 15 minutes.
Start the Prime95 Blend test.
You should keep hard copy notes for each test and note any problems that you have, such as:

• boot loop, with or without the bios resetting to default values
• BSOD; what is the bugcheck code (e.g. 0x0124), when and where did it happen (e.g. elapsed time in Prime95, while booting, etc)
• any other errors or problems (BE SPECIFIC, I'm not a mind reader)

If a test fails, change the next bios setting in the list and leave the earlier setting if it is different, such as when going from (G)MCH OverVoltage Control to FSB OverVoltage Control.

Make the following changes. one at a time in the following order boot your system and test with Prime9:.

1. (G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.15V]
2. FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.15V]
3. FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.20V]

During all tests you need to have:

• HWiNFO64 running with Sensor Logging enabled with a 2 or 5 second interval. where 2 seconds = 2000ms.
• CoreTemp running to confirm your also show your core temperatures and cpu speed.
• Memset running with the SPD button pressed along with the >> button to display both memory channels

.

The attached screen-shot displays some useful HWiNFO details.

When errors occur, the devil is in the details.

When you post your full bios template, please put the following information at the top of every full template post:

Motherboard: Model: Rev#: Bios Version:
Cpu: Model
Ram: Brand, Model/Part#, Link to your ram's specs
Power Supply Unit: Brand, Model#, Wattage

This will help thread readers who want to steal....errr....copy your bios template.

BTW. as I'm typing right now, your thread has 1,367 views so far, whodda thunkit!!

Any questions?

Naturally if your system is apart right now for spring cleaning, you won't be testing or posting until your system is back together.

[lukevega]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

Cheers profJim!

That sure is helpful!

Yeah I really hope that others are benefiting from this thread as much as I am (or at least somewhat)

Getting closer to exams so haven't been working on the system for a few days - but it's always at the back of my mind!

I've been studying away from home for a few days but want to get back and check some info out too - I'm wondering if another factor in my low SSD scores is related to this: (AnandTech | An Update to Kingston SSDNow V300: A Switch to Slower Micron NAND) - I'm unsure of what version I have in my system but I'll probably cry a little inside if it's the 5.0.6 firmware...

I'll run the tests before I go ahead and 'deep clean' my cooler - did you also suggest I rotate it so the airflow is from front to back?

Forgot to mention I went back to the 3.8GHz settings that ran prime95 stable for 4 hours so will be looking to take it from there. I'll post all the info next time I get a chance.

Again, thanks for the continued support!

Lukevega

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

AS SSD reports your firmware as 520ABBF0 and I don't know if this means you are one of the unlucky ones.

I started the http://forums.tweaktown.com/storage-...rformance.html thread in August 2011 to provide information links and warn readers about buying a somewhat less expensive SSD that uses asynchronous Nand instead of the somewhat more expensive synchronous Nand.

The bottom line:

asynchronous drives = inferior performance
synchronous drives = superior performance

At that time, toggle Nand was not available for the mainstream/enthusiast market.

We will have a better idea where you stand once you have connected your ssd to the native Intel sata2_0 port and rerun the AS SSD benchmark. The fact that you have a 240GB ssd helps somewhat, because the smaller sized ssd's have somewhat lower benchmark scores but they really take a performance hit when the ssd is more than about 66 - 75% full.

The ATTO ssd benchmark uses compressible data, so its benchmark scores will look much more "normal."
With an operating system on your ssd, 4K random read and write scores are more important than sequential read or write scores.
There are some excellent ssd guides and web reviews that explain what it takes for an ssd to perform well.
I pretty sure that your add-in sata3 controller card's performance in your P35-DS3L is hindering your ssd performance.


Knowing your current ssd firmware, I'm going to see if I can find out which newer firmware versions are available and if this information will let us determine what type of Nand you have. If Kingston has one large firmware update that covers many models, we might not be able to find out..

As I said earlier, if your AS SSD performance is similar to my scores in the first two tests, you've got the good stuff.

Some areas in Europe might have strong consumer protection laws, especially when it comes down to corporate fraud and/or bait and switch business practices. After the OCZ ssd "marketing" fiasco, I permanently swore that I would never again by any of their products. I was somewhat bothered when my used hardware bundle included 8 X 2GB of higher end OCZ ram but I wasn't going to "throw away $250 - $300 of usable DDR2-1066 memory.

I really like Kingston's higher end memory but at this point I won't be recommending their memory unless they do the right thing and take care of their ssd customers who got suckered into buying an inferior product.

FWIW, my first ssd's for my systems were OCZ Agility2 60GB asynchronous models that worked well with my older systems, at least until one ssd moved into the slow lane when it got "too full."


Cpu Temperatures and Airflow

The cooling fan in the middle of your case's lower compartment draws air in through the lower hard drive cage an should be fine for cooling your hard drives. The main upper compartment has only one air intake fan and its airflow is partially blocked by your hard drives that are in the middle cage. Moving the drives to the lower compartment will provide an unobstructed airflow path which should help with somewhat cooler cpu and video card temperatures.

I suggest that you work on lowering your cpu temperatures the same way you should overclock where you don't make a lot of changes at one time.

Right now I'm 4.5 hours into my Prime95, Q9650 4.0GHz tweak test running with lower cpu core voltage. My first IBT and LinX stress tests passed with flying colors, only to have Prime95 barf after 1.5 hours. Right now the 4.0GHz cpu core voltage is only 2 clicks (0.01250 volts) higher than my everyday 3.8GHz settings. I'm going to see how low I can go. My findings will give me a better idea how to lower your Xeon's cpu core voltage.

[profJim]

Re: Socket 771 Mod Xeon X5460 GA-P35-DS3L Overclock

@lukevega

Before you try booting with your ssd connected to the motherboard's sata2_0 port you need to check several things.

Go into your bios Integrated Peripherals screen and report the settings for SATA AHCI Mode and SATA Port0-1 Native Mode.
Page 39 in your mobo user manual describes the options, but don't change anything right now.

Page 37 has the Advanced BIOS Features screen.
Report the current settings for Hard Disk Boot Priority, First Boot Device, Second Boot Device and Third Boot Device.

When you installed win7 on your ssd, how was the ssd connected to your system? Sata2 port? Using the sata3 add-in controller card?

Are you familiar with searching the windows registry for certain values.

Your AS_SSD screen-shot shows that you are currently using the asahci64 driver which is for your add-in sata3 card.

Keep in mind that the AS_SSD scores represent the worst case scenario for your SandForce based ssd and does not accurately reflect real world performance. My asynchronous OCZ Agility2 ssd had similar AS_SSD scores and installing it as my boot drive made my P35 feel like it was supercharged and on steroids. Previously I was using a WD Caviar Black hard drive as my boot/data drive while running win2k pro.


On a happier note, my Q9650 4.00GHz Prime95 Blend stress test just passed the 5 hour mark using cpu core voltage = 1.39375, so far so good
My everyday 3.80GHz setting uses 1.38750 volts.
3 of the cpu core temperatures range from 52^o(C) to 65^o(C) with one rogue core insisting on running 6^o - 8^o hotter. I've made it more difficult for my system by varying the ambient temperature from 19^o - 26^o(C).