EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -> 4 GHz stability issues

[saxin]

Hi,

I took my time and read various threads with similar issues still a few questions arise.
The current settings are:

CPU = E5200 R0 (1.265 VID) , FSB wall appears to be at 350 MHz
Motherboard = EP45-UD3LR, rev1.0
BIOS Version = F5
Ram = GSKILL PI Black, F2-6400CL4D-4GBPI-B, http://www.gskill.com/products.php?index=167
GPU Nvidia 9500GT, 1Gb mem (stock clocks)
PSU Seasonic 620W


MB Intelligent Tweaker(M.I.T.)
Robust Graphics Booster ...............: Auto
CPU Clock Ratio ..........................: 12
Fine CPU Clock Ratio.....................: 0
CPU Frequency ...........................: 4000


Clock Chip Control
Standard Clock Control
CPU Host Clock Control..................: [Enabled]
CPU Host Frequency (Mhz) ............: 333 Mhz
PCI Express Frequency (Mhz) .........: 100
C.I.A.2 .................................:[Disabled]


Advanced Clock Control [Press Enter]
CPU Clock Drive...........................: 900
PCI Express Clock Drive.................: 800
CPU Clock Skew (ps)....................: 0
MCH Clock Skew (ps)...................: 0


DRAM Performance Control
Performance Enhance...................: [STANDARD]
Extreme Memory Profile (X.M.P.).....: Disabled
(G)MCH Frequency Latch...............: 333
System Memory Multiplier ..............: 2.40B
Memory Frequency (Mhz) ..............: 800
DRAM Timing Selectable ................: [Manual]

Standard Timing Control
CAS Latency Time........................ 4
tRCD ......................................... 4
tRP'........................................... 4
tRAS.......................................... 12

Set all Suggested below to highest Values first. Then later you can lower, one at a time, testing as you go

Advanced Timing Control
tRRD........................................... 3
tWTR.......................................... 3
tWR............................................ 6
tRFC........................................... 52
tRTP........................................... 3
Command Rate (CMD) ....................: 0

Channel A
Static tRead Value.........................: 6
tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................:Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment...................:Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................:Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................:Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................:Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:Auto
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps

Channel B
Static tRead Value.........................:6
tRD Phase0 Adjustment...................:Auto
tRD Phase1 Adjustment...................:Auto
tRD Phase2 Adjustment .................:Auto
tRD Phase3 Adjustment..................:Auto
Trd2rd(Different Rank)....................:Auto
Twr2wr(Different Rank)...................:Auto
Twr2rd(Different Rank)...................:Auto
Trd2wr(Same/Diff Rank)..................:Auto
Dimm1 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps
Dimm2 Clock Skew Control...............:Auto ps

Motherboard Voltage Control

CPUMCH/ICHDRAMAdvanced Settings
Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
C2/C2E State Support....................: [Disabled]
x C4/C4E State Support..................: [Disabled]
CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]

Integrated Peripherals
Legacy USB Storage Detect ..............[Enabled]

1. Why my cpu GTL (Reference) isn't set correctly by auto, as far as I know it should be about 0.63-0.64 of VTT ?
2. What is the suggested VTT for my scenario, should I approach Vcore with it?
3. Why the MCH (NB) voltage need to be increased, the chipset should handle the 333 MHz FSB easily ?
4. Another minor issue is that I can't find E5200 R0 official support on Gigabyte website only M0 stepping, should I try the F10 BIOS maybe ?

I can run stable and cool on 333x11.5=3.83GHz. still I want to push a bit more as my cooling allows this.

Help will be appreciated.

</pre>

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

CPU GTL ref is set correctly by Auto, based on stock Vtt. If you change the ratio when Vtt is not at stock then it will be out of whack.

Check my signautre for more on this, sorry images will be down until the 10th though.

CPU Termination (Vtt) Automatically changes the following if manually set >>>

CPU Reference Voltage (.63% of Default Vtt/1.20) .76 ET
CPU Reference2 Voltage (.67% of Default Vtt/1.20) .80 ET
MCH Reference Voltage (.63% of Default Vtt/1.20) .76 ET

DRAM Voltage Automatically changes the following if manually set >>>

MCH/DRAM Reference Voltage (.50% of Default Dram Voltage)
DRAM Termination Voltage (.50% of Default Dram Voltage)
Channel A Reference Voltage (.50% of Default Dram Voltage)
Channel B Reference Voltage (.50% of Default Dram Voltage)

Looks like you may have changed your CPU GTL Ref sometime, when Vtt was not at stock? Set Vtt back to 1.20, then set CPU Ref to .768 or auto. You probably don't need to mess with this anyway at your FSB so best to leave in Auto

You can use 1.3-1.36 Vtt if you need, I doubt it will need more than that, if that. 1.3-1.34 usually isn't needed until 400+ FSB

Yes, I would go ahead with updating your BIOS to F10. Please use Qflash or DOS, DO NOT use @BIOS!

MCH Core would need increased for the 4GB of memory you are using, this is normal. You may need 1.24-1.26 depending on memory timings/voltages used and FSB/strap/multi used

Try 10 x 401 FSB, use 2.00D memory multi. Then if your cooling allows you may be able to hit 4Ghz with more Vtt and Vcore. You will need to loosen tRD to 8-9 to do this. You can also try the 2.00B strap/multi which would allow 7-8 tRD, but it may not work depending on voltages and your memory itself.

[saxin]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

Thanks for the quick reply,

My proc won't post anything above 350 MHz, a wall or a hole is there some practice to breach it ?
I found it by 1:1 strap and x6 multi with elevated NB and CPU voltages !

I saw what u wrote about cpu GTL, I mean that the value on the left to the value I choose in bios (the one showing default settings) reads 0.805v this isn't 0.64 of 1.2v which is shown as default VTT.
Maybe board settings got corrupted somehow ?

Thanks again for the help.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

Are you sure? Maybe you did not use enough voltages, or are trying with the wrong memory multiplier

Value on the left in the BIOS for all settings can be ignored, they are not always defaults and are not always what is being used if Auto is set.

Are you starting from Optimized? CPU Ref amount may be determined by your CPU itself, not sure since many people do not use that, or this board same applies to that too.

Boards FSB wall woudl be about 420-425 from what I see, so it would be your CPU or choice of settings.

Do you want me to give you some settings to try for a higher FSB?

If so let me know, but please do try the things I mentioned above.

[Chike]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

CPU Reference in the older EP4xUD3Lx boards default is 0.805, this seems to be changed in the EP4xTUD3Lx boards.
As for the whys you'd have to ask GB engineers.

[saxin]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

I tried with Vcore at 1.425v BIOS, VTT 1.2-1.35v, MCH core 1.2-1.3v multi at x6 memory timing relaxed - 5,5,5,15 and 1:1 dram:fsb ratio (In order to eliminate the ram) started at 333 FSB and went up until reached 350 FSB after what the system won't pass boot it will cycle 2 times and load with 200 FSB and display the red warning in BIOS. So I'm pretty sure that this CPU isn't capable of more that 350 FSB.

I don't want to reach higher clocks at any cost so the 1.45v BIOS voltage is a limit for me, my cooling also won't allow this - I use Mugen II for this system.

I tried your 401 FSB settings with TRead values of 9 no BOOT !

Thanks.

[Chike]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

tRD 5 should be possible with your timings have you tried it?

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

Well it very well could be your CPU then, or the board? I doubt it though, as I have seen these boards go much higher and those CPU's at 5Ghz+

Mind posting me your full settings you are now trying that fail and I will advise back

[saxin]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

After a bunch of time spent on this one, here is some speedy conclusions:

FSB is more or equall 333 MHz.

333x11.5=3.83 GHz Vcore=1.3125v (BIOS) , vtt = 1.2v, NB = 1.2v, cpu GTL = 0.67%, NB GTL = 0.67%
temp max at 56 C, 4 hr Prime small FFT

333x12=4 GHz Vcore=1.425v (BIOS) , vtt = 1.2v, NB = 1.2v, cpu GTL = 0.67%, NB GTL = 0.67%
temp max at 72 C, 1 hr Prime small FFT

Performance wise between the two (above) the difference is negligible less that 1 s diff. in superPI 1M.

While investigating I was raising the vcore every notch, vtt and NB voltages 1.2v up to 0.1v lower that vcore did not yield significant improvement on stability.

NB GTL was left at 0.67% always. CPU GTL was varied: all 4 possible notches were tried -=> the 0.67% gives overall better stability. For example at all other voltages constant 0.64% cpuGTL makes 1st core fail after certain time while 0.665% makes the other core fail after other amount of time, both in Prime95 small FFT.

Mem settings aren't the issue, ram:fsb at 1:1 stock 1.9v voltage and relaxed 5:5:5:15 timings.

LSD - I tried pumping the vtt it won't make difference as I written above....probably this is my LIMIT.

Thanks for the help.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: EP45-UD3LR+E5200 R0 -&gt; 4 GHz stability issues

MCH Ref is the key really, as opposed to CPU Ref. You may want to test that with various combinations of Vtt, such as Vtt 1.2-1.34 with MCH Ref being .70-.84 at 1.20 Vtt