Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

[Merman]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

If you did not think I was confused, then ignore me! HAHA Ya, I know what all is what in the programs we are talking about. I just got confused above for a sec when you and SVC was talking. Tired over here..... I suppose

I understand. I am tired too and can't sleep tonight.

I see Everest didn't give the advanced timing SPD for the EPP profile but looking at Memset the EPP advanced timing profile is no more agressive than the standard SPD for 555-18. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised or disappointed as my memory more or less kept the same advanced timings as it overclocked.

I also noticed tonight that my memory should have an EPP profile per the extended info PDF file. Not so as there is no such profile shown in Memset or Everest. But no big deal if its not any more agressive than standard and I am overclocking manually with an Intel board anyway.

TWIN2X2048-6400C4

That is a 2 gig kit. Confusing I know.

BTW in the Everest Motherboard/Chipset screen there are Memory Timings in the left colmun and values in the right. Now in some timings there is a rank and value. What is a rank???

Read To Read Delay (tRTR) Same Rank: 4T, Different Rank: 6T

Write To Read Delay (tWTR) Same Rank: 10T, Different Rank: 5T

Write To Write Delay (tWTW) Same Rank: 4T, Different Rank: 6T

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

Ahh who needs em anyway I say!


They are mainly for people who dont mess around in the BIOS, And that leaves those users likely not using them as well if they do not choose them in XMP. Auto doesn't always get it right either on NON XMP boards. SPD, Mainly EPP are made to be read by Nvidia Boards. Intel ones try to read them in AUTO, but like I said.....

Now with P45+ XMP looks to be very promising in the way of reading the info right, at least from what I have seen. I'll never use them, but it looks good for Intel.

SLI is Licensed to Intel now you see that news? I'm sure you have, above just made me think of it. Sapphire for me FTW

And for those who do mess around, they are useless anyway really because they are just a Generic set of settings programmed for a batch of chips. Not per chip/stick. So it is up to us overclockers to find the best settings per our own configs anyway

And also those programmed settings are for use at stock speeds, who runs that?

[svcglobal]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

You have the correct screen in Everest and the settings should be exactly the same as MemSet as these are the settings programed in the ram. Both programs should read the same. Its just that Everest uses the technical memory terms and no translation between memory terms is needed. I didn't like trying to match what Memset SPD memory terms stated to the terms in the Bios. tRFC to tRFC is easier to match than Refresh Cycle Time to Refresh To Act Delay. The P-45 Bios is much better in that respect.

I think you missed the link about which memory you have. I looked at the Corsair site and there are two 1339C9 part numbers. One with 1.6 volts and the other is 1.7volts

TWIN3X2048-1333C9 1.6 volts 999-24

CM3X2G1333C9S2 * 1.7 volts 999-24 and XMP settings

Seems like you have the 1.6 volt memory without XMP.???

It would have been nice if Corsair had stated both the XMP advanced timing settings and non-XMP settings for us users as I'm sure their competitors already know.

@ Merman, really I don't know TODAY which memory I have . In June, they were sold as 1.7v for 1333 and 1.5v for 1066 at Newegg ( see buyers comment here Newegg.com - CORSAIR 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10600) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Desktop Memory ) . Seems that Corsair changed recently its specs and this occur frequently in the electronic market.
But, even OC @ 1520MHz, the Corsair DDR3 memory works fine from 1.5 to 1.7, just tested for two hours each voltage at MemTest86+.

And here is my chipset Everest page, just for fun:

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

BTW in the Everest Motherboard/Chipset screen there are Memory Timings in the left colmun and values in the right. Now in some timings there is a rank and value. What is a rank???

Read To Read Delay (tRTR) Same Rank: 4T, Different Rank: 6T

Write To Read Delay (tWTR) Same Rank: 10T, Different Rank: 5T

Write To Write Delay (tWTW) Same Rank: 4T, Different Rank: 6T

Here is some quoted info. But basically it is a set of IC's or Chips on one side of a ram module, or both sides of a ram module >>>

"Standard' RAM chips are organized a DEPTH x 8 Bits. E.g. 32x8, 64x8,
etc. That means 8 of the chips make up a 64 bit wide rank (memory bus
is 64 bits wide). "Double Sided" is an old term to describe a stick
with 16 chips, 8 on each side. And with DEPTH x 8 chips that makes for
2 ranks (or, again in an older style terminology: 2 'banks').

'High Density' chips are DEPTH x 4 bits so it takes 16 to make a 64
bit wide memory rank. And this is why "double sided" is no longer the
favored description because when x8 chips are used "Double sided"
means "double rank" but with x4 chips it takes both sides and 16 chips
to make the ONE, single, rank.

Inside a memory chip, there are "four rectangle" of memory.
Each one of those is called a "bank".

The dimensions of the rectangles inside the memory chip,
are defined by "rows" and "columns".

Memory chips use those three dimensions for internal addressing.

Memory busses on current generation systems are 64 bits wide.
If you have a 512MB DIMM, it might have 8 chips on each side
of the DIMM. 8 chips, each having 8 data bits, forms a 64
bit wide array, and those 8 chips are called a "rank". A
double sided 512MB DIMM has two "ranks". (Note that some
people use the term "rank" or they use the term "bank"
for this. But using the term bank for both the side of
a DIMM, and for the internal operation of a single memory
chip, can lead to confusion. "Rank" is a more unique
term for this purpose, at the DIMM level.)

There are other chip formations possible. A 1GB DIMM, constructed
from 128Mx4 memory chips, also has a total of 16 chips. But
since each chip is only 4 bits wide on the data bus, it takes
16 chips to build a 64 bit wide "rank". Thus, a cheap 1GB module
constructed with x4 chips, has a single "rank", but is double sided.
Thus, "ranks" are not the same thing as "sides" of memory.
But many people abuse the terminology, and pretend that
they are equal concepts.

[harry23lim]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

thanks for this artice this helped me a lot in understanding how memory tweaking works :) i gain knowledge from this thanks to you guys :)

[Kythlyn]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

I have a Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3R motherboard and Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2-800 RAM. Could someone suggest how I should set up my BIOS? I'm trying to make sense of the information in this thread but it's 'sploding my brain.

[stasio]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

MemSet v.3.5.7beta
-Add support for Intel G35 chipsets.
-Add support for Intel PM45/GM45 (Mobile) chipsets.
-Fix a bug with the Save function on Intel chipsets.
-Improve reading frequency with some Intel CPU.
HERE

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

@ Kythlyn

Please make a new thread of your own, to keep my sanity, and I will be more then happy to help you with some suggested settings.

@Stasio

Thanks, will update post to include that

[stasio]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

MemSet v.3.5.8 beta
Add support for 630i and 790i
HERE

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

Thanks, Will update OP

[DavidDavisLeeSomething]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

Hi Lsdmeasap,

Sorry to impose on you like this.

I searched through this entire thread and could not find anything that would help explain why there are different Advanced timings values with BIOS and MemSet.

Here's the snapshot again:




The only one that does make some sense to me is the Write to Read Delay which, I assume, involves different values for Same/Different rank.

The remaining 3 values with question marks (tRTP, tWTP and tRTW) I can't seem to make sense out of at all. Actually, you'll see that tRTW can't be adjusted in the BIOS, only with MemSet.

Now I'm wondering: if I inadvertantly SAVE some of those "hidden" values with MemSet and the system crashes, probably gonna need to clear the CMOS. Something I don't like to do since that takes over an hour for me to do it, because of how I have my entire system set up LOL.

Again, I'm sorry to have to impose on you like this.

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

No problem man! First off, you should not use Memset to Save things. All changes should be made in the BIOS only, or in memset just for testing or benchmarking not to be saved and applied at boot time.

An hour to clear CMOS? OUCH! Please connect your case's reset switch to the CLEAR CMOS Pins, then you can just stick a needle in the button to hold it down for a few (10-20) minutes with the PSU Switched off or unplugged

tWTP cannot be adjusted with your BIOS.

From page one Memset Vs. BIOS >>>

These three you asked about are on page one, here is the info I provided on them

tRTW can be set in the BIOS

Rank Write to READ Delay (tWTR)_______ (4-6) 9-11 (Note Actual Value set in BIOS Vs. What system Uses will be 7+)

As for tWR (Write to Precharge Delay)

Write to Precharge Delay (tWR)________ 3-5 (Note Actual Value set in BIOS Vs. What system Uses will be 5+)

And tRTP

Read to Precharge Delay (tRTP)_________ 3-6 (Note Actual Value set in BIOS Vs. What system Uses will be 2+)

[DavidDavisLeeSomething]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

Please connect your case's reset switch to the CLEAR CMOS Pins, then you can just stick a needle in the button to hold it down for a few (10-20) minutes with the PSU Switched off or unplugged

LOL...that's a neat little trick!

I'm assuming that using the RESET switch in that manner grounds the CLR CMOS pins the same way a jumper does...right???

It takes 10~20 minutes to clear the CMOS??? I always thought it took only 10~20 seconds.

[DavidDavisLeeSomething]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

I used some old front panel wiring off an old case I had laying around in storage. Cut it off near the front panel assembly and left the terminal on the other end. I then crimped some Auto-electrical spades (male/female) on the opposite end from the plug.

Took my whole setup apart to get the computer system out of my cabinet. Then plugged the terminal into the CLR CMOS pins.

If I ever need to clear my CMOS again I can just fasten the spade connectors to each other and wait 10~20 minutes?????

[stasio]

Re: Memory Timings Explained W/ Suggested Timings & Memset VS. BIOS

Lsdmeasap,please update with MemSet v.3.5.9 beta
added support for G41 and Q45