asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

[okultis]

I have 2 setups, one is Msi Gaming3 h97 with 4460, another, more recent, is Asrock Fatality Killer with 4460

Both have latest bios. on Msi microcode is 1c, on Asrock 1a. i use HW info to read that. Msi Haswell runs in full load Prime test on 0.926 volts, Asrock is on 1.012. One core only slightly more on both.

HW monitor reports that in idle Msi is only 4,5watt package, Asrock is around 7watt. full load msi is 10watt more (sometimes). Msi lowers voltage to 0.008 (0.20 average), Asrock board 0.7. Is that board not reading Haswell voltage right because as far as i understand all Haswells should be the same, 0.7volts and internally lower (like Msi board). Msi is also on 0.7 when i read VID voltage in HW monitor, but vcore is 0.008 or 0.020. Vcore on Asrock is fixed on 0.8.

HW info reports that Msi haswell has tdp long duration 105watt 16 sec, short duration 120watt 2.44ms (unlimited)

Asrock is 84 watt 8sec, 105 watt 2.44 ms (unlimited)

I have same cooler in both, evo 212 with Scythe fan. Asrock is 54c in full load, Msi only 47c. if set both fans on same speed (1450rpm).
Gpu in idle not to interfere. Maybe heatsink paste is not ok on Asrock (too much) i will check that in couple of days.

so...

How is Msi with more tdp cooler?

Is asrock 84watt 8 sec limit ok? its 84 watt cpu, what is that 8 second limit?
Is TDP difference microcode issue?

I dont understand too much here, please can someone explain

Microcode is not the same... is that motherboard issue? Both cpus are same revision

Why is Msi board reading vcore as low as 0.008. VID is the same on both (0.7)

Asrock board has 1a microcode, is that older then 1c on Msi. Will we get update?

I can add pictures if needed

Thank you!

[parsec]

Re: asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

ASRock has two Fatality Killer boards that work with your CPU, one a Z87 chipset, the other a Z97. We don't know what ASRock board you have.

You said nothing about UEFI/BIOS settings. The default settings for each board are probably different, Auto settings are not standard, they could be enabled or disabled. This could easily be the reason for the differences in power usage at idle and under load. But we have no idea if you are using default BIOS settings, or changed them.

The TDP values shown by HWiNFO are just what the default power limit settings in the BIOS are set at. That does not mean the CPU is using that much power. The BIOS of both boards should let you adjust the TDP and Turbo time limit (the 8 second limit.) HWiNFO will show the actual CPU Package Power being used, but how accurate any of these readings are is unknown.

The CPU temperature difference is most likely caused by the difference in VCore voltage. The voltage difference is also caused by different default settings in the BIOS.

HWiNFO will usually show the true VCore on ASRock boards, other programs like HW Monitor won't. My ASRock Z87 and Z97 boards will show 0.000V with HWiNFO when all the C States are enabled, and the Windows Power Plan is configured correctly. Again, the difference between the two boards may be related to BIOS settings.

Do you have exactly the same drivers installed on both boards? The Intel IRST driver has performance options that affect the idle voltage, depending on its settings.

Two boards from different manufactures used with the same CPU will usually not have identical power usage readings even if all the BIOS settings are the same. The difference is related to the type of transistors used in the CPU VRMs, and many other things. Check some mother board reviews that compare boards and show power usage testing.

[okultis]

Re: asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

Thank you kindly for your answer.

I will try to give you more data.

It is Asrock H97 Fatality Killer, bios 1.90, in csm mode because of Radeon 5850 (no GOP for this card). Intel Rapid Storage Driver is 13.1.0.1058 (same as on MSI board)
Everything in Bios is on default, Auto regarding Voltages, but i did try with all on Enabled, and Package C7, was the same.

Power supply unit is XFX 550 (Seasonic), samo as on MSI board, but this PS Unit didnt have Haswell ready sticker (MSI PSU is newer and had that sticker). I got this PSU 2 years ago at least, but they both have same part number. I did try sleep with C7 enabled, same results, also went in and out of sleep, no crash. But.. is maybe difference bacause of that?

Msi board is all on auto voltages, 660gtx with GOP, Uefi mode.

I have watt o meter, and there is 12watt difference in idle. But i think thats because of 5850 pulling more power in idle. I will take out both GFX Cards and check then.

Case is the same on both, Antec p183.

Is ok to have Power limit 84watts 8sec? As far as I see, computer behaves normally, holds 3200mhz and jumps to 3400mhz.
Should i use C7 on enabled or auto? If PSU cant do it what are warning signs (like crash)? Is it safe to put on C7. But there was no difference.
I can always switch CPUs from Asrock to MSI.
I also think voltage difference causes temperature difference (5 degrees C). Is this ok temp and voltage for i5 on Asrock. (56C and 1.012v all loaded, turbo 1.050v, EVO 212 1500rpm)

You didnt say about microcode, can this make difference also?
I am not looking into that both CPUs start working on the same temp/volt, just to make sure that its all OK and maybe find reason for difference. And maybe get lower temperature on Asrock board, if possible with this voltage. Is both MSI and Asrock actually slightly better Voltage on CPU than highest default stock? Does Stock Voltage goes to 1.2?

Picture 1 is Asrock board HW info.

[okultis]

Re: asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

Picture 2, MSI. You can easily see TDP and microcode difference.

[okultis]

Re: asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

I have lowered temperature on Asrock board.
Removed heatsink and reapplied thermal paste. Dont know what was wrong, maybe wasnt tightened enough. Temp is now on Asrock same as on Msi. Around 47-48C. Didnt test it much, through, only 10 min Prime but i let it go to 55c with lowering RPM on fan and then set RPM on fan to 1425. It went to 47-48c. So almost the same, and Asrock is 0.1 volts higher, so this is now good temperature.


If someone can tell is it 84w long duration limit OK? i guess it is. And 105 on another CPU.

UPDATE, after more testing with prime there is only little difference. 1 or 2 degrees better. Prime for 2 hours running. Prime varies temperature +-6 C while running. So i got 48 at start and later it went to 54. Testing yesterday with olds thermal paste I didnt try Prime long enough so cant know if it would dip to 47-48. Testing with Prime and RTHDRIBL at same time shows 1-2 degress per core less temperature then before. Max cpu temp is 57.

[parsec]

Re: asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

As I said in my first post, the CPU Power Limit 1 and 2 are set by options in the UEFI/BIOS. The default settings of the MSI board are not exactly what the standard Intel specifications are, they are a little higher. The ASRock board's settings are exactly to the Intel specifications.

Notice that those are power limits, not what the CPU will automatically use. Either setting is fine, since your locked CPU will never use that much power.

If you are using a Watt Meter to measure the AC power usage by the entire PC, then the only accurate way to check how much power difference between the boards is to have exactly the same hardware in both PCs. Different video cards, different HDDs and SSDs, anything different will change the results.

The power supply "issue" with Haswell processors is not a problem as long as you have a load on the +12V rail of the PSU besides the CPU. Haswell CPUs with the C7 C State enabled can put no load at all on the +12V rail, which will make some PSUs go outside of the ATX spec for the +12V voltage regulation, and they will turn off because of being outside the ATX spec. But if you have at least one 12V fan in the PC, or a HDD, or a video card, which use +12V power, the PSU will never see no load on the 12V rail. As long as there is a load on the +12V rail, there is nothing to worry about.

[okultis]

Re: asrock mb and haswel,l tdp and voltage different on 2 cpus

Thank you very much for explanation!