Lindows law suits.

[C_deck]

i just received this email today. the lindows fellow is correct in his brief assessment of MS. i have been in the business nearly 30 years and i have followed it all.

http://www.lindows.com/lindows_michaelsminutes.php

What about MS licensing the unix kernel? regarding the sco/ibm lawsuit (in case you never heard) which is an attempt to squash linux and is on the surface, another attempt by MS to kill linux.
please read http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html specifically http://www.opensource.org/sco-vs-ibm.html#id2791554 which has information beyond the scope of a forum post.

for those of you that only grew up in an MS world, it may be informative.

[C_deck]

another loss for MS, the first of many more to come in Europe. an interesting point was MS was the low bidder.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=PH3ORD1DRJ1BYCRBAELCFEY?type=technologyNews&storyID=2837894

[zeradul]

What is your point? Do you seriosly think MS cares the tinyest bit about Europe? (or the government of Munich, Germany which is the topic of that article?)

The city of Munich said on Wednesday it would switch 14,000 computers from Microsoft's Windows operating system to rival Linux

Oh no! The end is near! The German government sure has proven its WISDOM OVER THE PAST 4 MONTHS>>> HAHAHAHA....

Hahahaha, Europe is a nobody in the world of computers. Do you really think that Germany's government had competent enough employees that will be able to utilize Linux? Hahaha, certainly not the ANY of the non-tech employees. This WILL blow up in their faces, but that is nothing new to Germany!! Hahaha.

My uncle lives in Germany (and has for 10 years), and he buys 100% of his hardware and software on visits back here. He says that is what all German businesses do, they buy Dell's and ship them over. Which proves my point, Europe is a nobody in the economics of the computer world.

==========

A while back, Europe was considering a law that would impose a tarriff on Windows, Office, and even multiple non MS software titles, and the logic behind it was "to encourage European companies to make their own software"

Microsoft sent a representative to read a statement at the hearing which basically said:

"If this bill is passed Microsoft will stop all sales of our products to EVERYWHERE AFFECTED BY THE TARRIFF. Companies and Individuals still seeking MS products will have to purchase them through our other retailers based in other areas of the world."

Quickly it was realized that this meant Billions in losses for Europe, because now there would be no LOCAL profit for each copy sold, because they would be paying retail price to a different country. The legislation was dropped immediatly.

--------

Once again, proving that Europe is irrelevant in computer economics.

[minibubba]

zeradul, you just contradicted yourself. if you were trying to prove a point that Europe is of little concern to the computer world and to Microsoft, then you really should have left out that bit about the tariff

and if Germany is so trivial, then why did M$ try so desperately to win the bid?

it does not take a rocket scientist to use Linux, from this quote: "Do you really think that Germany's government had competent enough employees that will be able to utilize Linux?' you obviously think it does, which makes me wonder how competent you are

[zeradul]

Have you ever worked with government employees?

I did not contradict myself. MS was willing to cease all sales to keep the tarriff from being applied, proving that they could care less what happened.

MS is a company who will make a bid to anyone. I don't see any indication of them 'desperatly' wanting to win the bid. All it says is that Steve Ballmer suggested offering a lower bid.

-----

On the other hand, don't get me wrong. Linux is great for servers, and other niche places in infrastructure. But for the most part, computer users just want simple, extremely simple.

I am all for competition, and in that light I am very glad that Linux and even Apple exist. Nothing keeps you fit, like a fit opponent.

-----

One thing that you must remember. MS is far more than Bill Gates and his buddies. MS searches out and hires the cream of the cream years before they graduate from College. I have a friend who is absolutly brilliant (36 on his ACT), and is a double major in Computer Science / Computer Engineering, and at the end of his sophmore year, he had a job offer from MS, assuming he graduated. But part of the offer was a free flight out to Seattle, and free hotel, free tour, free meals, free everything. He was impressed.

And what does this mean? Well, he is the most intelligent person I have ever known and somehow, Microsoft found him.

The key to any dominant and successful business is having top notch employees, and going to that extent to find them, I find commendable.

[C_deck]

Zeradul,

the point of the above articles/posts is not a reference to munich alone but the current world trends.

your uncle certainly has limited cultural experience and his comments should be ignored by all, especially by the german people.

the largest world market should be a concern to ms. europe is currently 15% linux and has a growth rate of 50% per annum. current ms practices has increased this growth rate even higher.

ms's response to the tariff was simply a short term tactic. people are willing to accept a regulated local monopoly but not an unregulated world monopoly with a history such as ms's. no one can blame europe for that legislation. europe's mass migration from ms is imminent it is not an anti US or anti free enterprise issue.

i am sure that 350 million highly educated people can use the linus gnome or other linux shells. after installing linux and openoffice on my comp, my training time was 5 minutes which, i think, is typical. maybe the munich civies will have to take an hour remembering new icons.

ms hires the best: do you mean the one in ten thousand. ms can't hire them or if they happen to get a young one, they can't keep them.. no corporation can keep these people and they are the people who count the most. maybe you should talk to a corporate psychologist.

you implied that linux is only good for servers. i see no reason why linux apps can't placed on 99% of business machines. many companys and ministries already have.

according to my numbers, ms discounted very very deeply on the munich bid. I think they did care about the munich bid.

[Frost]

Concerning the price of Windows XP. Newegg hardware and software company check out their prices for Windows software, OEM are around 93.00 US. Whe we bought 6 copies for our comptuers at work we got upgrades to our 98SE and ME workstation. Our compay President bought them from a software discount place for something like 95.00 each. they would have cost us 99.00 retail, at a local Staples, or Circuit City store plus the 6% state sales tax. I recently built a new computer for the winery and bought a Windows XP OEM with Service Pak 1 from Newegg for $93.00 It works fine.

At the winery we have 2 SCO Unix servers that store the data that we generate from our Windows workstations. It also houses some proprietary software and some software that Doug wrote in C language specifically for the winery & vineyards. We also use another piece of software that 'connects' us from our Windows desktop to the software residing in the Unix servers. ICE.TCP is the name of the software and Dejawinnt starts it and say for example I want to look at 'Lab calculations'. I click on the lab calculations on the windows desktop pretaining to that program and it 'fetches' it from the Unix box to my desktop and I run what I need. We keep bottle inventory, grape spray orders.. a WHOLE bunch of stuff there. Since these programs were written in C , we think that Linux might be able to run them. If we were to drop an operating system, it would probably be the Unix and not the Windows XP. But, that would be if we could get Linux to do what we are currently doing. Our current SCO Unix servers presently also serve not only this software from Windows workstations, but also provides support for the cash register terminals in the tasting room.

There are a lot of other Operating systems out there besides Windows and Linux. I use System Commander from www.v-com.com and it has the ability to boot into a little over 100 operating systems on your computer if you have hard drive space enough! Novell, Unix, Linux, PC DOS, DR DOS, etc etc..

Look at Operating Systems like tools. What are you wanting to do? What tool would be the most useful in doing that? If you were a mechanic you wouldn't pull out a torque wrench to remove a oil drain plug. You would use the proper wrench (size). If you were working on internal motor parts and needed to tighten a bolt or nut to a specific ft/lb of torque, you would not use an adjustable or open end wrench, you would use that torque wrench for that.

Availability of additional features is also a good consideration in the field of Operating Systems. The "average" home user going into a store to find a computer software to doing "somethings" could be creating greeting cards, learning a new language, or designing landscape for a garden... consumer choice among the software manufacturers out there at Wal-Mart, Staples, etc. BUT most are written in Windows or Macintosh format. You look for something written for a business application for Unix, then you are going to have to look at some specialiazed piece of software, written for that purpose, and ususally quite expensive. Also somewhat hard to find.

I don't fault Linux. But Linux or rather Huges Networks, hasn't written software to run their 2-way satellite dish for internet access in Linux recognizable format. Only comes in Windows.
There was 1 application, a world clock, in my Linux OS, that I really like better than anytything else anyone has wrtiten in Windows format.

long threads huh?:D

[Wiggo]

After readin' this 2nd page (most BS or miss info) I'd say that some of ya's are too filled with self importance or misunderstanding. :rolleyes2

[zeradul]

I don't know how many results you have appear per page, but my second page just started...

After readin' this 2nd page (most BS or miss info)

You took the words right out of my mouth... :laugh: :laugh:

And I must say that I am shocked by the amount of BS non-sense going on in this thread.

[Wiggo]

[b]I don't know how many results you have appear per page, but my second page just started...

I just use the forum's default settings like 95+% of others, 20 posts per page.

[asklepios]

After readin' this 2nd page (most BS or miss info) I'd say that some of ya's are too filled with self importance or misunderstanding. :rolleyes2

ah god bless you... :)
so are we going to stop now? :hammer:

[Frost]

I'll inject one thing. Microsoft really is not worrying about Linux. Because there is no way you could PAY me to switch over entirely to Linux from Windows XP. I don't care how much Windows costs, at least it works.:mad:

My wife and daughter uses windows.. why.. they like the games. No word processing, no web browsing, no spreadsheets, no databases, no listening to music or anything. All it is to them is a modified "Atari" setup for playing some games that aren't on the Windows XP system. If they were on XP, I doubt that Linux would be used at all for them.

I have tried to configure it so we can see each other and share printers (mine) when we are on Linux. We are an island unto ourselves. No one sees anyone else. It's as if Linux was not even on a network. Might as well write letters to each other and send them US Mail.

My cost for Linux... FREE.. what's it worth .. about that! What good is having an Operating system.. even a free one... if you cannot get accomplished what you are striving to do? This is why Linux will never be the backbone of the computer industry.. never! The first time someone tries to configure something and has to re-invent the linux kernel.. then OOpps!!! out the door and here comes MS. Apple is more user friendly and at least you CAN go into a store and purchase software to run on it.

Reminds me when I was at an auction with my cousin, Rick. Were watching this item sell for a ridiculous low money, and I nudge him and ask, "aren't you going to bid on it?? It's only 5 bucks!".. He responded "A bargain ain't a bargin unless you have a use for it"... so we let it pass.. :2cents:

[SoulForge]

"A bargain ain't a bargin unless you have a use for it"

Very wise indeed.:bounce:

[minibubba]

I'll inject one thing. Microsoft really is not worrying about Linux.

that may have been true before, but it's not any longer

I'd like you to take a look though some of these articles if you think M$ isn't concerned about LInux:

http://www.openoffice.org/news.html

in fact this is a quote from the first article on that page:

[b]Linux should pass Apple in market share for desktop operating systems on computers sold in the coming year. That means from 7% to 10% of all PCs shipped won't bear the Windows icon.

^that is cutting into M$'s profits, so you can bet they are paying close attention

[chezman]

How long will that last. And out of those percentages, how many will upgrade to XP so they can get done what they need to do, that linux can't.

I am an advocate of linux or actually freeware/opensource although I have never used linux. I just like the idea.
Whereas my brother lives by it. He runs linux on anything he can. Although at work (Wells Fargo system IT manager) he works with M$.
So he sees and knows both sides of the fence.

The bottom line, is like he told me, if you want to use linux, you are going to have to LEARN how to make it work for you.
Whereas M$ has learned how to make it for you.

The bottom line is do you want to spend the time to learn a "new language" or not. If you do, then run Linux and have fun with it, although you will have to learn as you go.

With M$ they have made it pretty much pnp. So you don't have to learn as much.

Its all personal preference. UNTIL Linux becomes more mainstream and gets better support and LEARNS how to make it work for you, instead of you having to LEARN how to make it work for you.

My :0.2:

Chez